Alien Contact Hypothetical - Join 'The Culture' or not? (Poll)

In My Humble Opinion
1

So sometime in the near future an incredibly powerful and advanced alien spaceship, the General Contact Unit ‘Poke It With A Stick’ rocks up in Earth orbit and makes contact. Although it has a humanoid crew, like other Culture ships they are pretty much just along for the ride and power, control and decision-making rests with the sentient onboard AI (called a ‘Mind’).

The ships Mind makes contact with Earth’s authorities and announces that it has been decided to offer full participation and membership for Earth into The Culture itself. This is a post-scarcity society and a loose collective of different species and advanced machines with full citizenship rights. It is basically a materialist utopia, biological members have all their wants and desires catered for, there is no hunger, no suffering, equal rights and opportunities for all, open-ended lifespan, control over a persons physical appearance, sex-changes at will, non-habit forming and harmless drugs, awesomely advanced tech etc

For those who aren’t satisfied with a life of endless hedonistic pleasure there is the ‘good works’ branch called ‘Contact’ where interested citizens can help spread the good news of Culture society to other planets and civilisations and either overtly or covertly help them move away from barbarism to a more civilised state (pretty much the anti-prime directive)

All they ask is that Earth humans play by the same rules as everyone else and if we do so they’ll welcome us with open arms to play a full part in their society.

This however is the catch, although biological citizens and sub-Mind AI’s live in an effective paradise, real power and control rests with the Minds, benign AI’s with effectively godlike capabilities. Although any decision with Culture-wide ramifications are decided by a universal franchise vote its clear that this is only at the sufferance of the Minds, they don’t actually have to listen to us any more than we would listen to our pets. But they really are genuinely benign and have the best interests of all Culture citizens at heart, it is extraordinarily unlikely that they’ll ‘go bad’ and turn against the biological members of their society.

So basically if we sign up all the problems we have as a species will be solved in one fell swoop and everyone alive now and born in the future will be able to live in an effective paradise but as a consequence our destiny and direction will be taken out of our hands and ceded to that of the Minds.

Yay, or nay?

*For anyone who is interested: The Culture - Wikipedia , I’m really only touching the surface in the above

** the scenario doesn’t have to necessarily be ‘The Culture’, just an alien society of similar tech and capabilities, basically the question is would and should we accept the solution to all our problems with the side-effect that human destiny is no longer our own to control?

*** poll is public

2

Sign up. Despite the requirement to submit to the rule of the minds, there’s still more scope for individual freedom in The Culture than there is in any extant (or likely future) human society

3

This.

As an individual, right now, I get to decide what I’m going to eat tonight, where I’m going to spend my hard-earned money when I’m not at work, and I get a teeny-tiny say in who forms my governments for the next 4-5 years. I can’t easily move from region to region, certainly not from country to country. I’m not sure if I’ll have enough to live on when I’m older, and my life expectancy is about 80 years, the last 5 of which may not be pleasant.

As part of the Culture, I don’t have to work, I can watch all episodes of everything and have abundant sex and eat chocolate and live to be 350. If I find that the planet or Orbital or ship I live on is being mismanaged by the Mind in charge, I can move to a completely different habitat.

4

Suuuuuure they won’t. [bolding mine]

Absent any hard-core proof/guarantee (and I am not sure how such could be acquired) that they “have the best interests of all Culture citizens at heart”, this sounds exactly like the kinds of scenarios we’ve read about and seen in any number of SF books, movies, and TV shows, starting with something like “To Serve Man.” And even if such proof were forthcoming, we need to determine (as a species) what our own destiny is, and not be in thrall to some kindly “helpers” somewhere. Not even the very wise can see all ends…

We’re just fine by ourselves, thanks, and we’ll figure out what our own “paradise” is on our own, sooner or later.

5

While there is in fact a bit of a seamy underside to the Culture (Contact’s Special Circumstances subunit), it does come off as perhaps the least of all evils, and technologically so far ahead of current earth that (IMO) one would be a fool not to take advantage. Yes, there are other civilizations that one might align with, but this one has the familiarity of being (mostly) human and got here first. Sign me up.

6

Speak for yourself, John, I’ll take green chicks and soma over pretty much anything this rock has to offer.

7

If they wanted to beat us up and take our water, they could do so. Trivially.

The fact that they’re offering some pretty comfortable terms means that either they really are essentially moral “good guys” according to standards we can relate to…or it’s some kind of weird scam and they’re trying to trick us out of our water.

“Betelgeuse Bridge” by William Tenn.

8

Who’s determining our destiny and direction now? Certainly not most of us, and probably not any of us, really.

Plus, to the extent that some few humans have some ability to determine our future, whose to say that they won’t ‘go bad’ and turn against the other biological members of our society.

So Hell yes, sign us up!

9

Pretty much the whole premise of the series is, “What if the machines don’t turn against us?” It is a deliberate departure from the cliche “AI turns evil for some reason” stories that abound.

10

You did say hyoomanoids, right? They ain’t elephants, are they? ‘Cause I’m not truckin’ with no damn elephants. Still stretched out from last time.

11

In the culture you can take any form you like, but most keep vaguely humanoid.
Sign me up on the double and get me fitted with some extra drug and sex glands thank you very much. After all, we’re not really “in control” of our lives at the present time either. We could get cancer, an asteroid could hit earth and there’s nothing we could do about it.

Minds could fix it though.

12

In that setting, there is a race of intelligent elephant-like people (pavuleans), but they’re not part of The Culture. For some reason, The Culture is pretty much just pan-humans, even though intelligent non-humanoids abound in the galaxy and the humans in The Culture sometimes have their bodies altered to non-humanoid forms (at least temporarily).

13

I say try to negotiate a different agreement, because I’m a suspicious monkey. What’s in it for them?

14

I’d say No Thanks.
Actually I think I should have said Other.

It would be cool if there was some mechanism by which those who wanted to could op in - like go to a recruitment center, sign up, pick a planet to live on and jump into a teleporter, or maybe the aliens terraform mars and you can hop over there to be part of their brave new world.

I like the idea of Earth staying like it is though, warts and all and I think folks who don’t want to join the collective shouldn’t have to and should have the right to stay where they are and keep truckin’.

15

Hell yes! Post scarcity utopia with actual benign AI instead of us trying to make an AI and hope that it’s willing to have any concern at all for our well being?

That and I think all warships would have hysterical names like “I Blame My Mother” or “I Said, I’ve Got A Big Stick”

16

So the poll is between:

  • being ruled by benign AI’s who deliver ‘…no hunger, no suffering, equal rights and opportunities for all, open-ended lifespan…’

  • having stupid bstrds like Bush and Blair in charge who deliver hopeless wars in Iraq + Afghanistan, thus leading to massive civilian casualties in Iraq, Syria, Libya, Egypt and the formation of ISIL.

What choice is that?!

P.S. After leading the UK into the above quagmires, Tony ‘war criminal’ Blair was appointed ‘Peace Envoy to the Middle East’.
You couldn’t make it up. :smack:

17

Not every Mind in the Culture is someone you’d want to meet in a dark alley. Or a brightly lit boulevard. I’m looking at you, the Meatfucker and the Falling Outside The Normal Moral Constraints.

18

I’d go for it. As said, Culture citizens have more real freedom and self determination than the people of Earth do. And if the Minds mean us harm then we’re screwed whether we join or not.

It’s just a style thing; they are “humans” now. They’ve been other things in the past, and will be other things in the future.

19

I don’t get these hypotheticals.

If everything is really wonderful and perfect, as we’re assured it is, then why wouldn’t we do it?

If there’s a flaw in the premise and it’s not wonderful and perfect, then aren’t we pretty much screwed regardless? We can’t fight off the aliens or their AIs. They’re going to get whatever they want with or without our cooperation. In fact, you could even argue that the less benevolent they are, the more cooperation they should get.

Anyway, I’m obviously for it, but with one caveat: I don’t think people actually adapt well to excessive abundance. I think that both work and a certain amount of pressure/scarcity is good for us. For example, putting a deadline on your work, even when it’s arbitrary and self-imposed, is a good motivator. So whatever system we work out, I think that mandatory part-time employment ought to be part of the deal (students, homemakers and poets are all considered employed as long as they’re all accountable for getting things done). Everyone should be expected to contribute something.

20

Some people believe a little suffering and disappointment helps us appreciate good things more, and would refuse to join a practically perfect eutopia on those grounds.

I’m not… sign me up for an immortal life of pleasure, discovery and happiness.