I see you have all become acquainted with our resident David Icke admirer.
I asked that question in this thread, which subsequently became a 9/11 conspiracy in
this thread. mystic has not yet answered what he means by this answer to “Are you a Holocaust Denier?”:
I didn’t misquote you Tom . I just screwed up the coding. I’ll try again.
OK, you said the statement was made in the context of Israeli citizenship law.
No wait, it is living in Palestine in the context of the nation of Israel.
No, no wait. You made the statement in the context of semitic or not semitic and I applied it to citizenship.
Tom, do you even know what you said anymore? Now again, could you clarify as to what context I should place your comment in.
Also, have you come up with that word yet Tom? You know, the word describing how culture, religion and tradition are passed across generatrions? I know it’s a tough one but surely there is something. Hey, how about “intraveinous proselytization”?
You lying sack of shit. I have not misquoted you. Every bit of what I have quoted is cut and pasted from your own post. You are so fucking pig headed that you stoop to dishonesty before admitting you are wrong.
SEARCH: “freeper”
Free Republic. Righty website? Yes, I see a picture of Ann Coulter.
BUT
Freeper Report: anti-war movement?
So, in conclusion, freeper has something to do with Free Republic, free press, anti-war politics, conspiracies, or something else. There are more listings. mystic declared victory and huffed off. How cute.
Yes, you did. See the portion in quotation marks of the following statement you made that crops and changes my actual statement. That is called misquoting.
Time for you to quit, I guess. You can’t even remember when you’ve made stuff up.
Yeah. That’s about it. With a different search, I found this.
It’s basically one big ad hominem argument directed at everyone who is not a conspiracy nut.
I eat ad hominy grits for breakfast. I think it is ironic that you say that my attacks are ad hominem, but your attacks (like labeling me as a bigot) are not. If you actually read my posts, you will find no evidence of bigotry.
Sentient meat, you seem to have forgotten the post where I said that David Icke is a nutcase. And what part of Holocaust Realist do you not understand?
Main Entry: re·al·ism (Merriam-Webster)
1 : concern for fact or reality and rejection of the impractical and
visionary
2 a : a doctrine that universals exist outside the mind; specifically : the conception that an abstract term names an independent and unitary reality b : the conception that objects of sense perception or cognition exist independently of the mind – compare NOMINALISM
3 : fidelity in art and literature to nature or to real life and to accurate representation without idealization
Meanings 1 & 3 are most apropos.
Beagle, you left out this:
The Tactics of Freepers
Freepers engage in many forms of tactics to intimidate their enemies. If you’re engaged in a real debate with a freeper (perhaps one of your friends is a freeper) they will usually start raising their voice immediately. They will then say things as if they were obvious fact (fox news isn’t biased, cnn is liberal, Clinton was a rapist, etc) when in fact anyone who looks at such things objectively disagrees with them. They refuse to back down from such points, even if massive evidence to the contrary is displayed for them. Another tactic used by freepers, but only in the online community, is called “freeping”. Freeping equates to we network security guys called a Distributed Denial of Service Attack. In network security, an attacker can utilize large numbers of ‘hacked’ computers, making them all flood a server with various protocols and information at the same time, hogging the server’s bandwidth and overloading it’s software, eventually causing said server to crash when it can’t handle the load anymore. Freeping is the same thing, except instead of ‘hacked’ computers being used, people are being used. They herd their sheep to one specific site that disagrees with their fascist views and they disrupt the site constantly until a) they feel their mission is accomplished b) the site goes down or c) they get bored. Then they all go back to freerepublic (freeperville, henceforth) and pat each other on the back and say “Wow, we sure showed those commies!” For some reason, they believe this helps their agenda. Personally, I think it paints them as the criminals they are. If they were using ICMP packets instead of actual people, it’d be illegal.
Summary
Freepers are slightly to the right of Hitler. Most believe that America is the only Godly country (save Israel, sometimes) and that all the unGodly must be 'smited'. They believe that rich, white males should be ruling the world and keeping their 'wimmin' and 'niggers' in check, and working, like the Good Book says they should. They're completely unable to comprehend that they're not the majority in this country, and that legitimate conservatives (John McCain) and legitimate Christians despise them. They're truly the perfect example of propaganda, scare tactics, and brainwashing. If you know any freepers in your day to day activities, I encourage you to prove my words to yourself by attempting to engage them in honest debate. If they fail to exhibit the qualities, they're not completely hopeless yet, I encourage you then to attempt to give them a mind of their own.That is what you said Tom. And that was not even mentioned in my post where you accused me of misquoting you. Do you have any further defense or rationalization of your remark or does the brevity of your last couple post mean you are out of bullshit?
And I am still waiting for you to come up with that word used to describe religious, cultural and genetic connections Tom.
Also this is enlightning as to your tactics:
Why didn’t you follow up on this Tom? You imply that this is a relevant issue and then back away from the challenge to prove it? Why Tom? Could it be that the rule does not hold true for adopted children?
So you fish around to find out if you might be able to sneak another lie past me, find out you can’t and abandon your implication. You are a weasel Tom. Time for you to quit. Judging from the substance of your last two post, you already have.
If you have read anything I’ve written, and I doubt it, I’ve carefully avoided calling you a bigot. I did say that anti-pro-Semitism sounded an awful lot like anti-Semitism, which you all more than I hashed out for several pages, including a detailed discussion of Jewish history and ethnicity. Once again proving that SDMB posters are willing to polish a turd.
Let’s go back, shimmer, shimmer I posted an article by Ariel Cohen citing the Venona book and the author who happened to attend an anti-war rally. You, out of fucking nowhere, assume that ARIEL COHEN, hmmm, is a “pro-Semite.” This, after basically dismissing any attempts to engage you in rational discussion - in Great Debates and throwing around accusations of “freeper(ness)” without knowing one thing about the people you were insulting.
And, now, you cry martyrdom.
Boo. Fucking. Hoo. You are an arrogant prick.
Elf6c called me a bigot. Sorry, Beagle, I have gone all the way back to the original thread started by Henry B, and I don’t see any evidence that you or anyone tried to debate me rationally, unless you consider closedmindedness, trite putdowns(reference to tinfoil hats), bigotry, arrogance, hypocrisy, etc. to be evidence of rational debate. I am not an arrogant prick in real life, but I do play one on SDMB. I was just trying to fit in. Almost everyone here is an arrogant closed minded prick. Any reference to CIA or conspiracies is immediately dismissed out of hand. So tell me, Watergate never happened? Iran-Contra and Iraqgate demonstrated legal above-the board attempts by honest people to carry out programs that they thought were legal and just? The CIA never plotted to kill Castro?
And your claim that North Korea has penetrated the anti-war movement is not a conspiracy theory?
conspiracy
- An agreement to perform together an illegal, wrongful, or subversive act.
- A group of conspirators.
- Law An agreement between two or more persons to
commit a crime or accomplish a legal purpose through illegal action. - A joining or acting together, as if by sinister design: a conspiracy of wind and tide that devastated coastal areas.
The SDMB is not dispelling ignorance, it is just perpetrating it.
Hank, you deliberately changed what I said
to the very different
I realize that you have difficulty understanding a lot of things, but that is a misquote where you changed multiple key points of my statement.
I did not say that ethnicity has no relevance to Israel; I said the the ethnicity of any group is irrelevant to the state of Israel. In other words, worrying about the semitic nature of Khazars (the point that prompted my comment) is irrelevant to issues of the state (think laws, citizenship, etc.) regardless of the issues of the culture or society (on which ethnicity may or may not have a concern). This is not weaseling; this is the explicit point that I initially made and the point that I have continued to maintain throughout your increasing loss of control.
I have allowed you to dance around the mother-child connection, hoping that you would finally realize that one cannot define ethnicity with a single connection.
You and I have already demonstrated that:
first when I pointed out the great-grandmother scenario in which a person who would be clearly identified as an ethnic Jew by any normal use of the word ethnic would not qualify for citizenship
and then when you countered with “Fred” who would clearly not be considered an ethnic Jew by any normal use of the word, but who might be granted citizenship. (I say “might” because I do not actually know the law in the scenario you described.)
So we have two cases where maternal descent will give results that are opposite of the normal concept of ethnic identity, yet you continue to whine that maternal descent makes it all ethnic.
You also keep ignoring the Falashas who are not ethnic Jews but who were granted citizenship, and have now wandered off to carp about Italian foods since you did not actually understand the point being made.
You have now misquoted me and lied about misquoting me while demonstrating that you have never had a clue regarding the actual points of the discussion. (Do you lose arguments with yourself, like this, often?)
About Israel and the Palestinians, I will paraphrase Chomsky:
“It is a poor service to the memory of the victims of the holocaust to carry out another holocaust in their name.”
Anyone who denies that the Palestinians are being holocausted is a holocaust denier.
How do you know they’re just not Holocaust Realists?
exactly
And you seem to have forgotten the post where I asked you whether he was a nutcase when he wrote his latest book.
Answer Yes/No: Was there a “Final Solution” comprising the deliberate mass-extermination of Jewish civilians by mechanical methods (eg. gassing, head-shots) other than mere starvation and disease? (Many people who answer No call themselves “Holocaust Realists”, or similar).
So Tom, where did I attribute this as a direct quote? I didn’t. I stated that as your assertion and claim. That is how I take your comment and fail to see how there is a difference considering that you have now used that assertion in the context of citizenship, semitic vs non semitic and in regard to the Khazars. You have not maintained the same position throughout this discussion. You have attempted to change the context of you remark now several times. That is weaseling Tom.
OK Tom, still waiting for the word to describe the religious, cutural and genetic connections between people. Come on man, you keep dodging this one. Give me the best word in our language to describe Freds connection to her great, great grandma.
Two cases of maternal descent? I don’t recall you saying the descent was maternal in the case you described. If the descent was maternal then the child is eligible for Israeli citizenship. I think you are bullshitting again Tom
I understand completely Tom. Lasagna is not Pizza but it is granted a place on the menu at Pizza Hut. That is the best way I know to prove that Pizza is irrelevant in any discussion of Pizza Hut.
Tom , the fact is there is an entire group of people out there with no other claim to citizenship in Israel except one of religious, cultural descent. That qualification has a waord for it. You figured out what it is yet?
Mystic, you completely don’t get why the Zionists considered places other than Palestine for a Jewish homeland. Did you know that in Europe at the time there was considerable anti-Jewish hatred? That Jews were in constant danger from pogroms, some state-sponsored, others freelance? The events of the 1930s and 40s where millions of Jews died due to the anti-Jewish policies of Germany didn’t happen in a vacuum, they were the culmination of decades (centuries) of anti-Jewish feeling. The Zionists correctly believed that Europe was too dangerous for Jews, that they had to escape Europe somehow. Going to Palestine was always a dream of the Zionists, but if that couldn’t happen then they had to go somewhere else. Hey, if you thought your family was eventually going to be slaughtered by Jew-haters, and you couldn’t go to your first choice Palestine, maybe Uganda might not look so bad. Compared to Treblinka and Dachau. Even though Treblinka and Dachau hadn’t been built yet, the impulse that created them was already present.
What is this, an interrogation? Who says I have to answer all your stupid questions?
Why would Icke stop being a nutcase just because he wrote another book? I haven’t read the book, so I cannot evaluate its claims. Perhaps you could send me your copy when you are done reading it. I have read and recommend these books:
Unholy Wars by John Cooley
Taliban by Ahmed Rashid
The War on Freedom by N.M. Ahmed
The Forbidden Truth by Brisard
Jihad vs. McWorld
Perpetual War by Gore Vidal
and many more…
As far as your question goes, which logical fallacy is it an example of? Shall we call it poisoning the excluded straw dilemma? Either I answer yes, thereby affirming something I think is factually inaccurate or at the very least incomplete, or I answer no and get branded as a Holocaust Denier.
Is it possible that the truth lies somewhere else? What are you, a Manichaean Duellist?
That’s funny…the Salem Witch Trial is showing on the tv…
Witchhunt algorith:
Ask subject if she is a witch.
If she answers No, torture her till she confesses…
If she answers Yes, burn her at the stake.
Well how about this one: Did the Holocaust happen or not?
On second thought, fuck that question, here’s a better one: What the hell does “factually innacurate or at the very least incomplete” mean? What the hell do you think the camp at Dachau used for? Jazzercise?
Yes. So what, lots of people died in WWII. Twice as many Slavs as Jews were killed by the Nazis. I don’t see anybody making movies about the Slav Holocaust. What about the Native American Holocaust? Or the African Diaspora? Or the Vietnamese/Cambodian Holocaust? Why are Jewish victims of slave labor camps entitled to reparations but not African victims of slave labor camps (plantations)?