All Muslims aren't terrorists, but all terrorists are Muslim, or ...

[Monocracy]

… or, Jay Severin, neo-conservative talk radio fucktard !!! (how do i yell? are two extra exclamation points enough?)

For a little background, i am fairly liberal-minded, but not overly partisan. For example, i usually disagree with Bill O’Rielly, but i think he usually has some pretty reasonable arguments to back his views (except when he goes on one of his Secularism Rants).

Now, Jay Severin is a FM talk radio show host in Boston, the #1 show in the afternoon, which is scary (except i wonder how much competition he has in the “afternoon radio talk show” market). I could write pages and pages and pages on the stupid views that he holds, but it would bore you and i don’t have that kind of time, but it’s sufficient to say that he is racist, homophobic, violent, and basically dumb as a rock. To summarize, he is slightly to the right of Pat Buchanan.

A long-time mantra of his is “Not all Muslims are terrorists, but (so far) all teroorrsists are Muslim.” I have heard him repeat this dozens of times, and incessantly during the invasion of Iraq. But to be fair, he pronounces the word “Mooz-lim”, in a funny voice … haha, good one.

As i woke up from my nap today, i heard him repeat this phrase to a caller. And finally, after hearing this dumb-ass statement repeated for the last year or so, the caller challenged him (he must have slipped through the call-screener, pretending to be a Severin-drone), mentioning the Oklahoma City bombing. “Ah ha!”, i thought, “you will finally have to recant your statement!” There is absolutely no way to defend his statement, right? … right?

“That’s not the kind of terrorism i’m talking about”, he responds. What? … wait … WHAT!? … And then on and on, about how terrorism has changed since 9-11, and mentions of previous acts of terror, Timothy McVeigh, John Wilkes Boothe (what!?), and then on and on and finally ending with the mention of Al Qeida. Well, you ignorant [insert your own long list of expletives here, preferably with many references to gross anatomical impossibilities … you’re reading the pit, i know you can do it], of course only Muslims (err, Mooz-lims) are terrorists if you define terrorism as acts of terror by radical Muslims. ARGHH! [please insert more expletives]

Unfortunately, the caller then brought up the DC Snipers as terrorists, to which Jay responded, “didn’t you know that both the DC Snipers were Mooz-lims?”, then he proceeded to berate the caller for coming up[ with such a stupid point, and then hung up on him, before the caller could fight back … whew, close call, Jay, you almost had to have a discussion with someone who had a good point. By the way, i know John Mohammed (by the way, isn’t that a Mooz-lim name?) is Muslim, but was his partner? I tried looking this info up on the web a few months ago, but didn’t know where to begin to find his religion … no news articles mention it.

I don’t know what else to say, except that i am disappointed in Americans and the human race that there are so many that hold the same views as this slimeball … and remember, this is Massachusetts, one of the most liberal states, not some state in the Bible Belt … i am scared, hold me.

[Ike_Witt]

While they have stopped fighting now, I suspect that the Catholics and Protestants in Ireland would be shocked to learn that they were in fact Muslim all along. Silly them.

[Starving_Artist]

Okay, then…how about 99.9999999 % of terrorists are Muslim? For crying out loud! These people are causing chaos in countries all over the globe and there are tens of thousands of them! Let’s not be so zealous in our aversion to stereotyping that we have such an open mind that our brains fall out. Let’s face it, these activities and attacks aren’t being carried out (as I’ve heard it said, although I can’t remember by whom) by blond 17-year old cheerleaders from Nebraska.

I’m sure I will be hammered for racism and bigotry, but believe it or not I’m not anti-Muslim. But the fact of the matter is that by far most of the terrorist activity around the globe today is caused by people professing Muslim beliefs. And I know that these people are supposed to be extremists and not representative of the true Muslim faith, but there are certainly a hell of a lot them for just a lunatic fringe.

I detest these deliberate attempts to sugar-coat things to try to avoid stereotyping. I believe honestry trumps everything else. If most of the terrorist attacks are being carried out by Muslims, people are certainly going to be suspicious and fearful of people of the Muslim faith. I myself have wondered why it seems to be that of all the terrorist activity in the world, it’s almost exclusively Muslim-driven. I know from first hand experience with Muslims myself that they can be very gracious, charming and delightful people to know. I have had Muslim neighbors and friends. But I do wonder what it is about the Muslim faith that has engendered so much aggresive and violent behavior among certain of its followers.

[Little_Plastic_Ninja]

@Starving Artist

If most of the terrorist attacks are being carried out by Muslims, people are certainly going to be suspicious and fearful of people of the Muslim faith. I myself have wondered why it seems to be that of all the terrorist activity in the world, it’s almost exclusively Muslim-driven.

Do we have any numbers on this? Of all the reported terrorist acts throughout the world, including the UK and Africa and South America, what percentage of these are committed by Muslim extremists? And does your general guerilla warfare count?

Also remember, just because they take responsibility for it doesn’t mean they actually did it. Most terrorist organizations are not above seeing their names in the news, even if they didn’t actually do what they’re accused of.

I know from first hand experience with Muslims myself that they can be very gracious, charming and delightful people to know. I have had Muslim neighbors and friends. But I do wonder what it is about the Muslim faith that has engendered so much aggresive and violent behavior among certain of its followers.

And I’ll bet you’ve got some black friends, too…

[JonScribe]

@Starving Artist

I have had Muslim neighbors and friends.

The correct phraseology is “Some of my best friends are Muslims.”

The problem, SA, isn’t a particular religion, but the extremists within each religion or political movement. Painting all (or nearly all) terrorists as Muslim isn’t close to the truth or close to honesty. Or didn’t you see the news out of Japan this morning.

[Starving_Artist]

@Little Plastic Ninja

And I’ll bet you’ve got some black friends, too…

Yep, gay too! (And American Indian, Mexican, Moroccan, Lebanese, etc. etc.)

[gobear]

I’m sure I will be hammered for racism and bigotry, but believe it or not I’m not anti-Muslim. But the fact of the matter is that by far most of the terrorist activity around the globe today is caused by people professing Muslim beliefs.

Well, yeah, it looks that way if you are guided only by the popular media, but you ignore the terror unleashed by non-Msulim groups, such Aum Shinrikyo, a Japanese cult that poisoned passengers on the Tokyo subway system with sarin gas; the ETA, a Basque terror group that has plagued Spain for the past three decades; FARC that threatens the stability of the Colombian government, and the IRA, just to name a few. Islamic terror groups are a relatively new phenomenon that are a product of poverty and political incompetence of the US-educated leaders of most Muslim nations.

That’s not to say that modern Islam doesn’t have problems. I found Irshad Manji’s The Trouble with Islam : A Muslim’s Call for Reform in Her Faith to be very enlightening on the rigidity of Islamic thought and its resistance to modernism. But it’s silly to say that Muslims in general have a special propensity to terrorism.

[Monocracy]

@Starving Artist

Okay, then…how about 99.9999999 % of terrorists are Muslim?

How about NOT. Or are you saying that for every one non-Muslim terrorist, there are one trillion Muslim terrorists? Since there are not, and i can prove this, one trillion Muslim terrorists, you must be saying that there is not a single non-Muslim terrorist. Then explain how Timothy McVeigh, the IRA, AND Ted Ka…Kazi…err, The Unabomber are not terrorists.

Yes, we all know that there is a problem with extremisist Muslim terrorism in the world, you didn’t have to use hyperbole to point this out. The fact is that NOT ALL TERRORISTS ARE MUSLIM. I actually didn’t think that this was up for debate, but then again, I don’t know why Jay Severin is able to attract so many fans that think as he does.

The whole point of this post is how stupid that statement is … not whether it’s true or not, because only an idiot could argue that it’s true.

[Larry_Mudd]

When terrorists are “christian,” they’re just not worth committing a lot of newsprint to.

These folks, for instance.

William Krar and Judith Bruey assembled a frightening arsenal in three rented storage units in this East Texas town, and federal authorities are trying to figure out why.

A raid in April found nearly two pounds of a cyanide compound [and] nearly half a million rounds of ammunition, more than 60 pipe bombs, machine guns, silencers and remote-controlled bombs disguised as briefcases, plus pamphlets on how to make chemical weapons, and anti-Semitic, anti-black and anti-government books.

I’d think it’d be a bigger story, but you really have to dig.

Of course, it’s fashionable for terrorists of all stripes to try to appear muslim.

Remember Larry Wayne Harris, the white supremacist nutjob arrested for possessing bubonic plague bacilli and allegedly plotting to release it in the NYC subways, while blaming it on Iraq?

Who do you like for the Anthrax mailers? “Allah is great,” my aunt Fanny.

[Starving_Artist]

I knew this would happen. :rolleyes:

Okay, the 99.9999999 % statement was an exaggeration to illustrate a point. And the Japanese gas attack was one incident several years ago. Certainly other terrorist groups exist but they aren’t nearly as prolific. But out of the last 100 terrorist attacks and bombings that have been publicized (and how else am I to know of them if not in the media?), how many of them have been attacks by Muslim extremists? Well over 90, I’ll wager.

And by the way, gobear, I’m not saying Muslims *in general * have a propensity toward terrorism, I’m saying that it appears there is something about the faith itself that seems to create an unusually large number of extremists, and I’ve found myself wondering why this is so.

[gobear]

And by the way, gobear, I’m not saying Muslims in general have a propensity toward terrorism, I’m saying that it appears there is something about the faith itself that seems to create an unusually large number of extremists, and I’ve found myself wondering why this is so

do you read what you write?

A.I’m not saying Muslims in general have a propensity toward terrorism
B.I’m saying that it appears there is something about the faith itself that seems to create an unusually large number of extremists

Those two sentences sure look similar in meaning to me, but perhaps I’m not getting your meaning.

In any event, tell us what books and sources you have read to get your findings.

[Larry_Mudd]

Starving Artist: But out of the last 100 terrorist attacks and bombings that have been publicized (and how else am I to know of them if not in the media?), how many of them have been attacks by Muslim extremists? Well over 90, I’ll wager.

What’ll you bet?

Of the ten results on the first page of a Google News search for “bomb,” seven of them are terrorist-related, and one of those concerns a Muslim plot.

Based on that quick feel, I’m fairly confident that a study of the last 100 bombings reported would be unlikely to find that 90% of the perpetrators were muslim.

Do you wanna do the research, or would you rather just continue to pull numbers out of your ass?

[JonScribe]

@Starving Artist

I knew this would happen. :rolleyes:

… Certainly other terrorist groups exist but they aren’t nearly as prolific. But out of the last 100 terrorist attacks and bombings that have been publicized (and how else am I to know of them if not in the media?), how many of them have been attacks by Muslim extremists? Well over 90, I’ll wager. …

Well, at least you’re self-aware that lame statements draw exasparated responses.

Did you bother to read the posts in this thread, pointing out just a few of the non-Muslim terrorist individuals and groups? Yet, you still dare to wager that 90 percent of terrorists are Muslims. Did you know that 34 percent of all statistics are pulled out of one’s ass? And 100 percent of yours come out of your bunghole.

[Monocracy]

@Starving Artist

I knew this would happen. :rolleyes:

Okay, the 99.9999999 % statement was an exaggeration to illustrate a point.

I stated two posts before yours that i knew you were using hyperbole with the 99.9999% figure (hyperbole is exaggeration for effect). The point is that he said ALL TERRORISTS ARE MUSLIM, not 99%, not 90%. And this is not an out of context quote or an in-the-heat-of-emotions remark. He has stated this explicitly at least a dozen times, probably 50 to 100 times in the last year. Today, he has gone so far to say that Timothy McVeigh was not a terrorist so that his 100% Muslim terrorist quote will still hold true. Do you agree with that?

[agiantdwarf]

Off the top of my head, I can think of the Tamil Tigers, the terrorists in Ireland, and the terrorists in South America.

[Tentacle_Monster]

Don’t forget the Irish Republican Army. Also the Dignity Battalions and the abortion clinic bombers.

In fact, if you define terrorists as people who use fear to further their own agenda, then there’s a whole buncha people in the current American government who count as terrorists. John Ashcroft, anyone?

See, this is why I like the Buddhists. The last Buddhist terrorist merely set himself on fire.

[GorillaMan]

There’s a significant Animal Rights extremism fringe, at least in the UK, who are intent on physical harm comparable to that of the anti-abortion extremists of the US.

[Starving_Artist]

@gobear

do you read what you write?

A.I’m not saying Muslims in general have a propensity toward terrorism
B.I’m saying that it appears there is something about the faith itself that seems to create an unusually large number of extremists

Those two sentences sure look similar in meaning to me, but perhaps I’m not getting your meaning.

I don’t think you do. I’m not saying that I think Muslims in general have a propensity toward terrorism. I am saying that the Muslim faith seems to generate an unusually large proportion of those in the lunatic fringe. I don’t see what is so hard to understand about this distinction. Let’s see if I can put it another way:

Religion A=99 % nonviolent followers/1% violent followers. (Most are nonviolent, thus they are nonviolent in general.)

ReligionB=90% nonviolent followers/10% violent followers. (Most are nonviolent, thus they are nonviolent in general, but for some reason a greater proportion of its followers favor violence to acheive their ends.)

I’m saying that my perception is that the Muslim faith seems more like the hypothetical Religion B than the hypothetical Religion A.

@gobear

In any event, tell us what books and sources you have read to get your findings.

Not findings. Just my opinion.

[Starving_Artist]

@Monocracy

I stated two posts before yours that i knew you were using hyperbole with the 99.9999% figure (hyperbole is exaggeration for effect). The point is that he said ALL TERRORISTS ARE MUSLIM, not 99%, not 90%. And this is not an out of context quote or an in-the-heat-of-emotions remark. He has stated this explicitly at least a dozen times, probably 50 to 100 times in the last year. Today, he has gone so far to say that Timothy McVeigh was not a terrorist so that his 100% Muslim terrorist quote will still hold true. Do you agree with that?

No. And I couldn’t care less about Severin and I’m not trying to defend him or his comments. I’m stating my own opinion that the Muslim faith seems to generate a disproportionately large number of terrorists and I wonder why that is so. And thank you for the definition of hyperbole. At the risk of inviting insults along the line of 'Yeah, that’s not all you missed" I will admit I overlooked the word in a hurried scan of the responses that have been posted.

[js_africanus]

@Starving Artist

I knew this would happen.

What’s that? That you’d get called out for being an ignorant asshat? I mean that respectfully, of course.

The Tamil Tigers are more prolific suicide bombers than the Palestinians–by far. Colombia ain’t exactly a safe place, what with the rebels and the paramilitaries and the drug trafficers and all. And to say that the Israelis don’t terrorize the Palestinians is just silly. Or racist.

If you define terrorism as terrorizing a others with violence in order to obtain political goals, which seems to be a pretty good definition to me, then you’re going to have to work pretty hard to defend your hyperbole.