All powerful IRS

We’ve all heard horror stories about the IRS bullying and even terrorizing citizens with outrageous tax bills and even sending the troops when necessary. I’m wondering how and when did the IRS get such large, sharp teeth to that allows them act dictatorial and totalitarian when dealing with the citizenry?

Also, if you refuse to pay taxes, what troops do they send in and what, if any, limitations to their power are there and how are they enforced by the people?

We have?

Yeah, count me as #2 :confused:

three.

Whatever kind of troops they are, we can be sure they’re lacking in SAMs . . .

If you hang out in tax protester circles, it’s common knowledge that David Koresh-style home burnings / invasions are a routine occurrence. But unlike that BATF + FBI operation / screw-up, these involve the IRS’s crack troops.

The fact that none of these IRS raids ever appear on the news just proves who else is under the IRS’s thumb.

Or at least that’s what the tax protester true believers seem to believe.

Not called the iIRS at that time, but the concept was first implemented in the USA around thistime

People have been arrested for failing to return library books. Here’s a case. Here’s another. You can find many more through Google.

How can you come up with any justification at all for not going after people who refuse to pay lawful taxes? How is this different from the use of police or the equivalent in every other criminal case or in every other case of misuse of government property or in every other case of fraud and theft?

Are there abuses? Certainly. Are there abuses with every other police force of whatever kind in whatever location? Certainly. That doesn’t mean that all uses of police are dictatorial and totalitarian. That doesn’t mean that we need to abolish all police.

We lose tens of billions every year from people refusing to pay legitimate taxes. The IRS is one of the few sections of the government that makes a profit. It should make even more.

The IRS is authorized by Congress to collect taxes. It is part of the Department of the Treasury, but sometimes relies on the Department of Justice for legal proceedings, if memory serves.

Most people greatly exaggerate the IRS’s collection tactics. Many clients come to me in a panic when the IRS finally threatens to levy/seize assets… but they weren’t in so much of a hurry when they ignored the first three, polite letters. I don’t really have a lot of sympathy with them at that point - they just needed to respond to find out about all of the pleasant solutions available. Having chosen to not use the pleasant solutions, they have chosen the unpleasant solution.

It’s like complaining that your evil landlord gave you a three-day eviction notice when you spent two months ignoring his polite reminders that your rent was overdue.

Other branches of government have a big effect on how the IRS operates. A recent Taxpayer Advocate report (the TA is part of the IRS) examined the use of liens. The IRS (per instructions from other parts of the government) started issuing liens more quickly and more often, increasing the number of liens 4-5x. But the TA report noted that this did not improve collections. They felt that the liens made it harder for taxpayers to get credit and drove them bankrupt… which obviously made it harder to collect. So the IRS’s own recommendation was for permission to issue fewer liens and to collect more slowly.

Anyway… the IRS has a whole range of enforcement and collection mechanisms at their disposal. They will start with several letters notifying you of the debt and giving you options to pay or set up payment plans. Eventually, they’ll escalate it with a Notice of Deficiency. Failure to address that takes you to Tax Court, where most people use an informal small-claims-like procedure to settle on an amount owed. But if you continue ignoring them, the Tax Courts can issue judgments that may include wage garnishment, seizure of cash out of bank accounts and levies against assets like houses. They can refer criminal cases (fraud, tax evasion, etc.) to the DOJ for criminal court proceedings.

As you can see, there’s not much in the way of troops involved.

Part of the IRS’s reputation for being mean is simply unfounded paranoia. Part of the reputation is based on how they used to operate. I believe it was 1997 when Congress told the IRS to lighten up and become friendlier. Recently, the IRS has become somewhat unfriendlier… if I can leave GQ mode for a moment, I’ll say it’s because Congress (both parties) wants more money but is too spineless to pass taxes or cut spending; instead of Congress looking bad, they’d prefer the IRS to look bad.

You might be too young to be aware of some of the abuses. Here’s some of what I’m talking about.

http://shop.history.com/detail.php?p=66799
“…IRS HORROR STORIES features the first-ever on-camera interviews with some of the IRS employees who stepped forward to testify about the agency’s extraordinary abuses. Their tales show not only the breadth of contempt the IRS has for taxpayers but also the extent to which it tried to silence those who exposed waste, fraud and abuse. Go behind the scenes of the Senate investigation to find out how the IRS knowingly built up unjust criminal cases. See how many IRS managers continue to resist all efforts at reform. And hear from those whose lives have been ruined by the IRS.”

http://www.rdtc.com/Blog/archive/2009/10/13/halloween-and-taxes-top-irs-horror-stories.aspx

Like Exapno Mapcase and several others, I am confused by OP. The IRS largely trusts in the honesty of taxpayers, follows due process in collecting, and so on. (Collections are down since GWB laid IRS emplyees off to “save money.” Anyone who believes Republicans are at once sincere and intelligent: contemplate that!)

The peculiar American belief that cheating on taxes is somehow noble rather than criminal staggers one’s respect for this once great nation.

I would have less kind words for the California Franchise Tax Board. Unlike the IRS, who engage in long patient dialogs about its tax claims, the CFTB quickly confiscates any bank account inside its jurisdiction, if it thinks there is unpaid tax.

I think the OP was using “sending in the troops” figuratively, you guys.

Wait, you ask how are limitations to the IRS enforced by the “people” and then post links to Senate hearings about IRS abuses?

Are you not aware that the Senators are representatives of the “people?” And that they are functioning just as they are supposed to? And that your OP loses all meaning when you post this?

I know a physician who, just last year, absolutely refused to pay his tax bill (over half a million iirc and very late - investment related stuff and LOTS of penalties). He tried to use any legal argument (made some up, too, iirc) and inevitably had three or four IRS/govt-agents knocking on his front door of his home at sun-up one day. The choice was either write a check/pay-up right then and there, or go immediately to jail. I’m told he made in to work rather late that day, so he apparently was unable to freely go about his business :wink: The money he owed was absolutely owed by him as he’d said so more than once, no mistake or such on IRS’s side. He just thought that the amount was more than he himself should have to pay. The physician was even refusing to pay a ‘negotiated settlement’ of like a nickel on the dollar of the original amount. The process did not occur over just a few days, but over months and months of sending letters back and forth, etc. IRS seems to have tired of his stalling antics and upped the ante for him (as they damn well should, especially in that kind of ‘case’)

So, yes, IRS will send ‘troops’, no doubt whatsoever, after all the other processes have been gone through and/or exhausted fully. I think Treasury Agents can get involved in tax collection/arrests as my ex-bro-in-law worked for Treasury and would talk about having to go pick up cheapskates or tax-cheats, but I never really asked for details so I can’t say for sure on this.

Oh, the Senate hearings? Bullcrap. Here’s the story there; Taxpayers could come in and spin whatever story they wanted to. The iRS was forbidden by law to tell their side. Rinse, repeat.

During that period, my Bro happened to be working as Manager of unit that responded to Congressional letters. They got a letter, all incensed at how the IRS could possibly come up with incredibly high estimates for crops, the Congressman reped a farm district, he KNEW no small farm could possibly grow crops to that value, what the hell what the IRS doing trying to put the small farmer out of business, etc etc. Now, the IRS can NOT divulge any part of the real story to anyone but the taxpayer and his rep. True, by such a letter, some basic facts such as there was a deficiency for that year, etc could be discussed, but not the details. By law, those are confidential and they cannot be divulged even to a Congressman (well, Congress could have issued a supena, sure. ). This was before the Internet had taken off. So my Bro called that local IRS office, and they sent over the case file, which just happened to include a couple of newspaper articles discussing the taxpayers arrest. Newspaper articles are public info, you can always quote it or refer to one. My Bro then called the Congressman’s office, and read the relevant part of the article- that the crop was marijuana. The Congressman’s aide then very asked my Bro to kindly act as if the Congressman had never sent the letter.

But until they found that newspaper clipping, they could not divulge the fact that the crop was pot, not soybeans or whatever. So, the story did sound completely outragous, it did sound like an iRS abusing it’s power, and so forth. Unless you knew the facts.