All those Illegitimate Breeding Machines

I thought it was clear I was talking about the western world. Obviously not. I’ll make it clear now. I’m talking about the western world, with all our reproductive rights, and reproductive options.

And if someone makes the choice to follow a religion that restricts other choices, then they choose to work within it’s framework. I see no difference here. It’s all about choices, consequences and what (IMO) is the responsible and unselfish thing to do. As it’s an opinion, I’m sure others will disagree.

Daisy Cutter also offered us this little gem of wisdom.

Lovely individual.

Mr2001:

So if you believe this “right” ought to be limited, what should happen if people overstep this limit? If the only people involved were consentual adults, then we could go somewhere with your idea. But it’s not just about adults. Is it fair for a kid to go hungry just because mommy and daddy put Friday night’s pay towards the rent instead of condoms?

So Mr 2001, we also shouldn’t support the children of corporate welfare execs like we do, at, oh, about ten times we do for social welfare, right?

Yep, I bet you’re glad you don’t have me as a neighbor.:smiley:

Seriously though, in *real * life, I’m a pretty nice guy, but you don’t have to believe that of course.

:stuck_out_tongue:

Look, the national Repub Party has made a clear and obvious decision to appeal covertly to racists – it’s clear and obvious because their appeals aren’t all THAT covert – and if you are a Republican, you are in cohorts with racists. What are you doing in cohorts with racists?

A very insightful observation there kambuckta. I’m naturally jealous of anyone who makes an insightful observation which I personally didn’t make! But be warned, I intend to plagiarise you in the future!

As for you, Evil Captor? Look, I don’t have a problem with you. To be honest, I’ve always thought you’re a pretty cool punter. But please consider something, even to this impartial Aussie all these thousands of miles away, well… your efforts to equate a condescending attitude towards poor mothers who have too many children with an unspoken, institutionalised ethic of racism within the US Republican Party is, well… ummm… those are some pretty offensive sweeping remarks I rather think. You might care to dial that back I’d suggest.

Just because some guy in a funny hat says it’s moral, doesn’t make it moral.

Well, I’m pretty horrified that I could be forced to pay to raise a kid just because someone wanted a cute bundle of wuv and knew someone else would pick up the tab, or because some guy in a funny hat told her she had to bring a kid into the world.

Of course not, the kid didn’t do anything. Punish the parents, not the children.

If they had to spend their money on rent instead of condoms, and they live someplace where free contraception isn’t available–in a cave on the ocean floor, perhaps–then maybe they should wait to have sex until they’ve saved up $5 to buy some jimmy hats. (Of course if I had my way, there would be free condoms for everyone, even in caves and bio-domes and West Virginia.)

Sure, sounds good to me. I’m not exactly talking about cutting welfare, but if I were, corporate subsidies would be first against the wall. I like SBIR, though.

I never said that I thought all of that was full-proof, but there is an alarmingly large amount of women who don’t even TRY to protect themselves.

And yes I was talking about people who live in America, if that was what you were wondering - men knowing that Planned Parenthood is an American organization.

I was only stating that there are a lot of options out there - and even though there are a lot of places in the world where people aren’t educated on birth control, America is not one of those places. Religion shouldn’t be a problem - if the guy or girl is wanting to have sex enough to keep it from their parents, they can find away to keep birth control from them as well. If they don’t believe in birth control, but insist on having sex anyway at a young age when they don’t want children…then I shake my head and walk away.

(Of course if I had my way, there would be free condoms for everyone, even in caves and bio-domes and West Virginia.)

We have plenty here, thanks.

Just to add one thing. While I appreciate this thread, since it is my first pitting (that I am aware of), I must admit that I’m fairly disappointed at the niceness being displayed here.

I’m treated far more hostile in great debates. Just today I was told to go screw myself in a thread.

Coming into the bbq pit after being in the great debates room is like getting a breath of fresh air.

I thought it was supposed to be the other way around, but what do I know ?

:rolleyes:

Keep up the good work. When I’m king, you’ll be Surgeon General.

The dominance of minorities on welfare rolls is a fairly recent development. (I was aware when I was still teaching that most welfare recepients in the U.S. were white.) Welfare rolls are dropping for all races, but more quickly for whites.

http://www.jessejacksonjr.com/issues/i072798362.html

Oopsie, Daisy. Those “breeding machines” are actually legitimate. So are the mothers and the babies.

Evil Captor

So I can add “making unfounded assumptions” to your already impressive resume of ignorance.

I am not a republican.

However, I have met a few of them and they weren’t actually all racists! gosh!

I also notice now you are only accusing all republicans of being in cohorts with racists. I thought all republicans were racists outright. Am I to take this to mean that you are retracting your original statement?

Oh, and I would love to hear all about how the republican party makes a clear and obvious decision to appeal covertly to racists. It it’s so clear and obvious I am sure you will have no problem giving some examples of this.

:rolleyes:

Fucking dumbass. It’s a waste of time even talking to you. Go back to the democratic underground.

OK, point clarified. Thank you.

**

How much of a “choice” is it, when you’ve been taught all your life that if you don’t “choose” to follow the faith, you will suffer eternal torment?

FTR, I am a religious liberal personally, and I think the world would be a better place if there weren’t fanatics and other Jebusfreak wackos living in the Middle Ages.
I am also very critical (some would even say judgemental) of people who have children they can’t care for.
In fact, I wish it was moral to require a license to reproduce. But it isn’t, so I don’t advocate that in the real world.

What I am trying to do, is get people to acknowledge that there are forces in Western society that seek to take reproductive rights and freedom away from people. And in some cases those forces are stronger than people’s individual will. In some cases women are utterly at the mercy of people (clergy, extended family, religious community) who have nothing at all to do with the consequences of multiple pregnancies.

Daisy Cutter,

Yep, I’ve been lurking in GD for a while now, and it really does seem that the mean and nasty are more approchable in the Pit, maybe because we don’t take ourselves as seriously as the high-n-mighties in GD?

Illegal? Lump me in with Debaser in the “you are an idiot of the highest order” camp.

Rhum Runner,

Gotta cover for kambuckta here. In some cities, counties, and municipalities, a slanderous term such as calling someone a nigger, wop, kike, heeb, slope, gook, spade, greaser, hymie, (er…sorry, got carried away) can get you a freakin’ fine (in Sumter County, it can get you a $10 fine first offense, not much cash but think of the time you’d have to waste if you wanted to argue your case in front of that cracker, the honorable Judge Tindall) or jail time, or court ordered racial sensativity classes. So, in some places, yep, nigger is illegal.

But in getting back to the question at hand, I personally believe that this is a matter of personal responsability. To be frank (and this is an unpopular view) the entirety of our welfare state (Medicare/Medicade, Social Security, AFDC, education, disability and the like) is unconstitutional and illegal. Why in God’s name do we put up with bullshit like this which is not written ANYWHERE in the Constitution and should exist, if at all, as one of the powers granted to the states as provided for under the Tenth Ammendment? I am sick and tired of seeing my paycheck docked 30% because of the necessity of watching welfare mothers of all colors breed without constraint and then NOT do anything.

I visited a friend of mine (a chic named Kelly, runs a small resturant on Sumter’s Liberty Street named “Soul Food”,) in which I mentioned this thread. She related a tale to me about one time when she was working two minimum wage jobs to care for her two kids. Because their father left, and HIS NAME WAS ON THE BIRTH CERTIFICATE, she was unable to qualify for public assistance, citing the fact that he should be paying child support. No arguement there, except for the fact that he was in prison for attempted murder (he tried to kill Kelly, which is what caused him to ‘leave.’) A patron of hers who was also in the resturant overheard us and said, “See Ms. Kelly, that’s where you went wrong. I get mine because I couldn’t name the daddy.” (No cracks here, but this was a black woman who was wearing a Nike running suit with matching shoes, had all the ‘bling bling’ on her neck, ears, and fingers, and had FOUR fat assed children sitting at the same table. Again, I say no cracks, because Sumter is an anomoly with a black majority living in the town.)

Where is the personal responsablity? You’re not a victim, and society owes you absolutely jack shit. No, we don’t even owe you THAT! Gimmie my goddamned tax money back, and keep your damn legs closed. Hell, having a child is a proactive choice. You have to FUCK to get PREGNANT. How hard is it not to have sex? Oh, but you want to have it? Sooo…is there some goddamned driving biological need that you must get a penis in you right now or you’ll die? Are you in fucking HEAT?! Because if you can’t control yourself, well, then you’re a dog, or a cat, or a roach or some other lower life form. And, please, don’t forget that we spay and nuter our lower life forms whos offspring we can’t take care of. BUT! I hope that isn’t the case, because I see you’ve got (most) of the same body parts as I do, ten fingers, ten toes, two legs, two eyes, and speak marginal english. You’re HUMAN, right? Soooo…can’t you shut your legs? Or must we send you to the vet?

Anyway, now I’m going to go run a mile. This shit’s got me all worked up.

We the people of the United States, in order to form a more perfect union, establish justice, insure domestic tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general welfare, and secure the blessings of liberty for ourselves and out posterity, do ordain and establish this consitution of the Untied States of America.

Why do some people like fushj00mang act as if this comes from Das Kapitol?