Allow me to piss off all SDMBers in one fell swoop (long)

The BBQ Pit
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I didn’t want to hijack any other thread, though I know there are a number of them going on right now. There have been a number of camps firmly entrenched on one side or the other in the Pay for posting debate over the last 48 hours. I’ve been caught in the crossfire. No, no one’s mentioned me by name. But I’ve read a great deal of the threads while the shit has been slung and I am a member of this community. When you say “Fuck all those that are staying,” or “Fuck all those that are going” it does affect me.
I feel like I’m in that Dr. Suess book and I have no clue whether having a star on my belly is the cool thing today or not. Or maybe the better analogy would be those fucking East and West monsters who refuse to see the other side, who refuse to yield or move to the side.
Well, allow me to get in the middle and yell at all of you. You may account for more than one category.

To the people who are leaving because of a monetary situation
When your “opponents” say that you can afford it, you just choose not to, that’s what they mean. The language they use is overly harsh, but they speak the truth. You CHOOSE not to shell out $20 to post here. What you all seem to fail to grasp is that no one is blaming you for this choice. If I had to choose between, say, food or internet, I’d…hmm… well, it would be a tough choice, but I like to eat.
You’re saying “X is more important to me than Y” Look, no one is blaming you for your choice. Well, if they are, then they’re assholes. But you’re choosing nonetheless. We all make choices and I’m sure this is a difficult one.
I’m sorry you can’t stay. You will be missed.

To the people who are yelling at the people who are in the first group
Jesus Christ. Stop trying to pick a fight here. You’re debate semantics. You know what they mean, just let it go. And if it’s not a semantic debate, if you truly thumb your nose at those who have financial difficulty, then fuck you. You aren’t helping the situation at all.

To the people who won’t pay because others aren’t paying
Last I checked, lemmings couldn’t type. Make a decision one way or the other, but make YOUR decision. If you want the board to continue, then help to continue the board. If you don’t, then don’t. But if everyone jumps ship because everyone is jumping ship, then all that’s left of the SDMB is a self fulfilling profecy and a whistful memory of what once was.

**To the people who say “If these are the people the new SDMB are going to be comprised of, I don’t want to be a part of it,” **
I’m not an elitist. I’m not laughing at those who refuse to join. I’m not in a clique and I don’t think I’m better than you. I find it insulting that you’ve grouped me into the same category as posters X, Y, and Z whom you happen to be upset with. Yes, you have grouped me in with them. I am a member of the SDMB and when you insult it, or when you insult those particular posters as representative of the whole, then you insult me. To say that one or two people suddenly equal the whole of the group is the height of ignorance. I thought you learned more during your stay here.

To the people who refuse to pay on principle:
Sometimes I think you’re the most rational of the bunch. You’ve weighed in with some good alternatives that I hope the mods and admins consider them. Other times I think you’re the dumbest. If this board comes crashing down, your principle ain’t gonna hold it up. If you want to leave, then leave. But stop bitching about having to pay. Lunchtime is over and the bill has arrived.

Who did I miss?

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You missed me.

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And spooje, who clearly cannot spell. Go away, you bourgeoisie pig!

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Preach it, brother! I agree with every word you posted.

I dunno. Maybe I (we) are a wierd case. On the one hand, I really, really like it here. If I have to pay to support my SD habit, then I’ll pay. It’s the only dope I’m on, so what the heck. On the other hand, and I know I’ll catch some flack for saying it, it’s just a message board.

If I was a starving student or a single parent with other commitments, and $20 made a real difference somewhere in my annual budget, would I still post here? No. We all have our priorities and we all gotta do what we gotta do.

But everyone (or almost everyone) has contributed to the vivacity and fun of this site while it’s free. So please quit bitching at each other about the pay issue. Some will stay and some will go. That doesn’t make any of us better, worse, or different people.

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You missed me, the one who’s going to pay and has no problem doing so.

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In general, I’d have to say, “Yeah…” but (and no offense meant!):

Dude, I don’t know about you, but I HAVE been in situations where I simply could NOT scrape up $20 for something like this message board… if it’s a choice between the SDMB and Astrobelly (or even worse: Astrochildren’s bellies!), then there is no choice!

If you have never been REALLY hurting for money, then you’re either really lucky or really unlucky (someone wiser than me will have to choose). :wink:

I’ll pay, and (if we can work out a good system to do so) am willing to sponsor one or two others… but we gotta face facts: we will lose some cherished posters simply because they cannot pay and there are not enough sponsors to go around.:frowning:

And fun with Newbies? Forget it.:frowning:
Trolls? Forget it. :frowning: er… ummm… :smiley: no wait! :frowning: :confused:

Evolution is a bitch.:mad:

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When I was a teenager (30 years ago), our family didn’t have a car or a TV.
Then my aunt invited us (Mum, Dad, sister and me) to visit her. About 120 miles by train.
My Mum took a temporary job (six Saturday mornings) to pay for the tickets.
When I went to University, I had to stay at home, because we couldn’t afford the University residence. I sometimes walked the 8 miles to save the bus fare.
I guess that counts as hard-up, so I know how it feels.

But the SDMB are not suggesting a weekly payment (as I understand them). You save up $20 and then get a year’s use of the board.
Is that such a problem?

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Best post yet on the pay situation. You are right 100%. No one should pass judgement on who pays and who doesn’t. If you aren’t going to pay, then remain silent. If you are going to pay, remain silent. Just do what you are going to do and stop bogging the board down in 10 different places.

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How about the wacked-out-but-still-up-for-experimental-stuff-and-can’t-take-it-too-seriously crowd ? FWIW, I think there are some for whom it’ll be fun to be on board – could be the most interesting 40 cents to a $1 a week entertainment online …

Cyber social modelling, baby! Check it out!!

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So if I refuse to pay on principle, have said as much and left it at that then I’m okay? I don’t recall bitching, so…

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I’m waiting to hear just how we can submit a payment…Will it have to be by CC? If so…‘no go’ for me for now. Don’t have (or want) a CC.

Pay by cheque? (‘Check’ for my US buddies :D) Sure! Pass me a pen!

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Ya know… I was going to let it go. However, something I saw in another thread coupled with your thread, well, I just have to say something.

When I said that certain people could afford it, but choose not to, I wasn’t talking about those that would have to choose between food/rent/electricity and the SD. I was referring to those that would have to choose between a new book or cd and the SD.
But then I saw this thread. I read the thread and then noticed something. Some of the people who are are so gung-ho to participate in this event are the same people who stated so emphatically that they “could not afford it”, that meat was practically a luxury item. If they can afford to participate in a gift exchange with strangers, they can afford to pay a registration fee and you’ll never convince me otherwise.

The reason some of us got into it wasn’t to be bitchy, we trying to offer solutions to their problems, figuring out ways for them to come up with the proposed fee … only to be shot down every turn as to why it wouldn’t work. This leads me to the conclusion it was never about the money, but more about the fact that they didn’t want to pay to post here. Which is FINE.

If they don’t want to pay a fee, that’s cool… I have no problem with that. Everyone is entitled to have their views on whether they think the SD is worth a registation fee, and I certainly wouldn’t look down on someone who felt that it wasn’t. Just say that.

It wasn’t so much about semantics, but the fact that if someone says “I can’t because of X reason”, then there are going to be people that are going to try to offer suggestions to help. If one simply says “I can, but I don’t want to”, then that’s the end of it.

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Hell, I just refuse to pay…where does that place me?

A freeloader? A dumbass? A fuckup? A bitch?

Naw, I agree with you Ender but there is never, in my mind a way to make a site for pay…I have four domains, er count them five, and I have never ever considered charging people to be a part of my sites. Granted they aren’t popular but still, if one of them was popular like the SDMB is, I would be thankful. I host my sites elsewhere and not on my own server, which is good, let them fuck with it all.

I still think the SDMB needs to be separated from the CR and made it’s own entity so they can do what most people do, and have fun with their site.

But what do I know, I am just a web master and a

FUCK THIS, what the hell is going on in NY right now?

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I don’t think that I’ll be subscribing to the SDMB pay service. It’s not that I’m against the idea, or that I can’t afford it. I won’t be subscribing since I don’t post here often enough to make it worthwhile. I’ll still be able to lurk after the change, which is mostly what I do here now. And sad though it may be, I don’t feel that the SDMB community will be particularly impoverished by my absence.

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It’s a shame that this place is apparently becoming an example of the Tragedy of the Commons, but it seems inevitable. All the socializing that goes on here, while enjoyable, has little to do with the stated purpose of the board, and I doubt it has sold many of Cecil’s books.

Believe me, I understand the need to pay for bandwidth. I wouldn’t beat up on the Chicago Reader if they decide to pull the plug, or on those who don’t want to (or can’t afford) to subscribe. But exclusion of a set of current posters, whether based on ecomomics or anything else, will make participation here a much less rich experience. Just for one example, it seems unlikely that anyone would pay a full subscription just to post a question or two in GQ. In addition, I can’t see someone with an obscure technical expertise signing on just for the opportunity to answer someone’s question every once in a while.

Yeah, there would be fewer jerks showing up here if they had to pay to troll, but I gotta admit, watching the veterans apply the Vulcan Death Grip to a troll is one of my favorite things about this place.

I can afford to pay to post. Will I? Remains to be seen. I used to participate on several interesting boards on Compuserve that were subsidized by my ISP fees. As users shifted from proprietary networks (wasn’t this board once on AOL?) to the WWW, however, they tended to wither away.

I’m not optimistic that this particular board would remain anywhere near as lively and interesting under a subscription format, and I’m unaware of any other board that has successfully made this transition.

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You know what Mauvaise? Fuck you. I have every right to use the money I squirreled away for Christmas on Christmas presents, whether they are for a complete stranger or not. And some of us are smart shoppers who can go to the Dollar Store or the Goodwill* and find some really cool things. Sometimes if you look at Target or Wal-Mart you can also find some kick-ass buys, especially around Christmas. And some us are pretty handy with crafts and can easily and cheaply make a very nice gift for someone. There are cheap(er) alternatives when it comes to Christmas shopping, there is not when it comes to subscribing to the SDMB.
Just because the upper limit is $10 a present doesn’t mean we’re all going to spend $10 on a present.
Besides, mean bitch that I am, I really enjoy sending CHristmas presents. Last year when I got my Secret Santa present it made my entire week, no, month. I’d like to hope that I could do a little something to cheer somebody up, even if it’s just for an hour or two.

*[sub]Now y’all are thinking “fuck, I don’t want pepper to be my secret santa.” Don’t worry, I won’t send anything to anybody unless it’s something that I would want to receive. At least in quality, if not in content.[/sub]

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You can’t afford it.

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Someone call the fire department! Yeeeeeeeeowch!

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I can afford to pay, and probably will if it comes to that. Having said that, the best suggestion I’ve read so far was from…umm, I forget who said it and I’m too lazy to look through the couple dozen pay-to-post threads to find it, sorry…anyway, best suggestion was to buy up ad space ourselves, purchasing them in buying groups (especially through Dopefests and the like), until ad revenue brings forth enough income to alleviate the need to go to pay-to-post.

Frankly, I’d hate to lose those who are tight enough for money that they could not afford to post here. And if we assume for the sake of argument that a hypothetical bunch of banner-ad purchasers would have kept the board afloat but that banner-ad sales are slumping, well, I’d pay for the privilege of keeping the board banner-ad free quite aside from the joy and pride of keeping it running.

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You’re absolutely right Mauvaise. The doctor visits and prescriptions alone would be enough to put me in the poor house permanently.