If these numbers are true, then 44% of Americans are YECs! And a pretty small number believe in Naturalistic Evolution.
Are these stats correct?
Probably, but I’d say part of the problem is the education HS students are getting.
I’d also like to point out that those numbers from religious tolerance are in regards to America’s beliefs, not the worlds.
I think it’s outright crazy and I find feel disgusted that there isn’t more pressure to actually teach our students actual knowledge instead of religious dogma.
of course it’s true. Most people are morons.
G’day
More likely, 44% of the sort of people who answer the 'phone either believe in the Young Earth or have learned that saying they do is the easiest way to get an annoying caller to leave them alone.
Phone survey statistics are junk.
Regards,
Agback
Part of the problem is lack of knowledge. There’s very little we know with certainty.
FWIW, I don’t remember ever being taught creationism in public school; on the contrary I remember very specifically the teacher telling us it wasn’t allowed and that evolution would be taught as the dominant theory and regardless of our religious beliefs it was still something we had to know. And that was years ago.
I don’t buy that. Why would answering ‘Young Earth’ be any quicker than answering ‘evolution’?
Not true for Gallup phone polls. They’re damned good at what they do.
Furthermore, very similar results have been found in other polls of Americans. Sadly, in general, we’re not a particularly rational and thoughtful society when it comes to religious or paranormal issues.
For phone polls, I’d be a flat earther. I dislike phone polls.
The problem, Balthisar, is that is was years ago you when had your experience. In the meantime the “moral majority” has become a powerful lobbying force, and their pressure on public institutions like schools and libraries had brought about many changes. When I took 9th grade bio ten years ago in GA, the ceationism vs. evolution debate had become so problematic that the teach taught us nothing for fear of pissing off one side or the other. Instead we all had to write a paper about our personal views on the rise of life on earth. Granted, I went to highschool with the son of the head of the southern baptist convention, so most of teachers tiptoed around any issue the least bit contenscious for fear of incuring his wrath.
Actually, strictly speaking, 44% of the population in 1997* were creationists, but not necessarily young Earth creationists. The survey answer they agreed with was “God created man pretty much in his present form at one time within the last 10,000 years”; this statement would include the YEC believers, but would probably also include many “old Earth” creationists (believers in the “day-age” or “gap theory” interpretations), especially since the survey doesn’t really include an answer for “God created man in his present form at some unspecified time in the past”. (From recent special creation the survey moves straight on to theistic evolution: “Man has developed over millions of years from less advanced forms of life, but God guided this process, including man’s creation.”) From what I understand, many “old Earth creationists” would accept an ancient Earth and Universe while (in most cases) maintaining that human beings are the result of a recent act of special creation. (I don’t know to what extent OEC believers still maintain that humans were specially created in the last few thousand years, as opposed to the possible view that humans were specially created millions of years ago.) While such views still require the rejection of much of what we know about human history and biology, they at least avoid the nonsense about lunar dust and starlight being created in transit and “Flood geology” and so on.
That said, the numbers are still pretty dismaying, though.
*It appears that the numbers in 2001 were 45% believed in special creation of human beings, while 49% accepted human evolution, with 37% believing in theistic evolution and 12% believing in naturalistic evolution.
I quote Bill Hicks: sorry for the profanity…
Fundamentalist Christianity - fascinating. These people actually believe that the bi…, er, the world is 12 thousand years old. Swear to God.
What the…? Based on what? I asked them.
“Well we looked at all the people in the Bible and we added 'em up all the way back to Adam and Eve, their ages - 12 thousand years.”
Well how fucking scientific, okay.
I didn’t know that you’d gone to so much trouble. That’s good.
You believe the world’s 12 thousand years old?
“That’s right.”
Okay I got one word to ask you, a one word question, ready?
“uh huh.”
Dinosaurs.
You know the world’s 12 thousand years old and dinosaurs existed, they existed in that time, you’d think it would have been mentioned in the fucking Bible at some point.
"And lo Jesus and the disciples walked to Nazareth. But the trail was blocked by a giant brontosaurus… with a splinter in his paw. And O the disciples did run a shriekin’: ‘What a big fucking lizard, Lord!’
But Jesus was unafraid and he took the splinter from the brontosaurus’s paw and the big lizard became his friend.
And Jesus sent him to Scotland where he lived in a loch for O so many years inviting thousands of American tourists to bring their fat fucking families and their fat dollar bills.
And oh Scotland did praise the Lord. Thank you Lord, thank you Lord. Thank you Lord."
Get this, I actually asked one of these guys, OK, Dinosaurs fossils - how does that fit into you scheme of life? Let me sit down and strap in.
He said, “Dinosaur fossils? God put those there to test our faith.”
Thank God I’m strapped in right now here man.
I think God put you here to test my faith, Dude.
You believe that?
“uh huh.”
Does that trouble anyone here? The idea that God… might be… fuckin’ with our heads? I have trouble sleeping with that knowledge. Some prankster God running around:
“Hu hu ho. We will see who believes in me now, ha ha.”
[mimes God burying fossils]
“I am God, I am a prankster.”
“I am killing Me.”
You know, You die and go to St. Peter…
“Did you believe in dinosaurs?”
“Well, yeah. There was fossils everywhere”
Thuh [trapdoor opens]
“Aaaaaaarhhh!”
“You fuckin idiot.”
“Flying lizards, you’re a moron. God was fuckin’ with you!”
“It seemed so plausible, ahhhh!”
“Enjoy the lake of fire, fucker!”
You ever noticed how people who believe in creationism look really unevolved? Ya ever noticed that? Eyes real close together, eyebrow ridges, big furry hands and feet.
“I believe God created me in one day”
Yeah, looks liked He rushed it.
They believe the bible is the exact word of God - Then they change the bible! Pretty presumptuous, hu huh?
“I think what God meant to say…”
I have never been that confident.
Proud of your contempt for simple honesty when asked simple questions, aren’t you.
I don’t think that’s really appropriate for GQ, Daylon.
[sub]But it’s damn funny 
[/sub]
I know better…really I do…but it just summed up the argument soooo well without having to reinvent the wheel…
Sorry if I offended…
D>
No offense here, just continued admiration for Mr Hicks.
No idea if the stats are right, but the questions look botched to me.
Note to self: Do not read Daylon posts while drinking Dr. Pepper. You owe me a new keyboard, boyo.
Ahh…my work here is complete, there are others who need me. UP! UP! AND AWAY!!!
D.
I think that two things should be noted about this poll. First, as MEBuckner notes, this poll asks about when humans were created, not about evolution in general. Some of the people who believe that mankind was created in the past 10,000 years also believe that life evolved over the past few billion years.
There’s a second, more subtle, distinction to be made. Daylon’s post assumes that anyone who believes in creationism must believe that dinosaur bones are fake. That assumes that most people have consistent beliefs. A lot of people don’t have anything like that complete and consistent a belief system. Really. If you ask them if they belief in evolution, they will say, “Oh, no, I believe that God created everything.” And then if you ask them if they believe that the world was created within the past 10,000 years, they will look a little confused and say, “What do you mean?”
If you then explain the difference between Young Earth Creationism, Old Earth Creationism, Theist Evolution, and Naturalistic Evolution, they will mostly look confused (and maybe a little angry) that you are trying to pin them down on the subject. But even among those who say that they are Young Earth Creationists, there won’t be a lot of consistency. Some of them will say that it’s possible to add up the ages of people in the Bible to get an age for the universe, while others will say that they’ve heard in church that the universe is young, but they don’t know anything about how that age was figured out. If you ask them if dinosaurs existed, some of the Young Earth Creationists will say that they liked to read about dinosaurs as a child, that they liked the movie Jurassic Park, and they like visiting museums with exhibits of dinosaur bones. If you ask them how dinosaurs could have existed if the universe is young, they will say, “Oh, I don’t know. Maybe they only existed for a short time between the time of Adam and Eve and the time of the Great Flood. Maybe the universe really is older. I don’t care.”
Most people don’t have consistent beliefs about this subject. I’m trying to say something more profound here than “Most people are morons.” Pretty much everybody has inconsistent beliefs about many subjects. The notion that within everyone’s heads is a neatly organized, consistent set of beliefs is just wrong. Everyone’s belief system is much more loosely organized than that, and I’m including all the Straight Dopers in this. Why do you think that arguments get so bitter in GD? When you try to re-organize the belief system of someone at a basic level, even if it’s someone who is more consistent about their beliefs on less controversial subjects, you will be getting resistence because you are forcing them to confront inconsistencies in deep ways. This is not to say that it’s not possible to force ourselves to re-consider even our deep beliefs. It is possible, and I hope that because of the SDMB we have done that, but it’s difficult (and rather painful and embarrassing).
Wendell Wagner makes really good points. While I don’t identify with any of the “groups” he mentioned (mostly for not having thought about it), I fully realize and believe that the Earth and the universe are of a substantial age. God isn’t an idiot. And yeah, I believe in God. Does that make me a believer that the Earth is 12K years old? No. One can’t believe what a preacher says entirely, either. I can’t believe I’ll be damned for trusting science. Evolution? Yes and no. Maybe intelligent creation. But that doesn’t negate the possibilty that we evolved or were created yesterday. Hell, maybe we were created yesterday and everything else is implanted (see Dark City or look for another post recently). Maybe we’re all living in a computer simulation.
I truly intelligent person wouldn’t be 100% dedicated to any theory and have mind open to anything. As I said in a previous reply, we don’t know nothin’.
The above isn’t to proclaim beliefs or criticize, but to exemplify the complicated set of beliefs we all have.
Surely there are variations in beliefs even among YECs.
If you believe that:
-
The earth is young: 6000 years or so, which is the number most often used by YECs
-
One species cannot evolve into another: many YECs hold that variations within one species are possible, but “macroevolution” (speciation) is not.
You’re a YEC.