I agree with CCL, but I would reverse the chronology of her advice. Get the money, then have your say.
I’d sit down tonight and write a letter of gratitude to your grandpa. Because he sounds like a wonderful, generous man.
If there was $30k given to your mom, it seems fair that 1/2 be for your sister and 1/2 be for you. That’s $15k each. Your sister paid back $12k. That leaves $3k, plus interest perhaps, that she owes you. She knows she owes it and you’ve already made it very clear you want to get paid back. Unless you are prepared to go to court and risk causing a huge rift in the family over 3 grand (which I HIGHLY discourage), I’d let the matter drop. Don’t involve your mother any more; after all, she was generous enough to pass on the $30k to her kids instead of pocketing it like dear uncle. The two of you have already turned what should have been a great thing into a bad thing. Stop it already.
If you are relying on student loans for DH’s education, I wouldn’t ask for $12k now because it will count against you when it comes to school loans. Instead I’d let it earn interest while DH is in school. You both knew that the these next few years would be lean due to husband’s lack of income and tuition expenses. Suck it up and get through them. Pretend that $12k doesn’t exist. And when he’s done, I’d use the money to put a DP on a nice house.
BTW, there’s no shame in living a trailer if it’s honestly gotten. There is shame in buying frivolous things like $10k rings when you owe $3k to your sister. And your sister should be ashamed of yourself. Forget it and move on.
Actually, Bri, she is indeed out a gift of money. Without her mother’s interference, her grandfather would have given her $30,000 and never batted an eye about it.
Lisa, I don’t think the problem with the trailer is that it’s a trailer as much as that it sounds to be in rather bad condition. If I was having a baby, I certainly wouldn’t want to bring it home to somewhere moldy and roach infested.
If this is indeed a loan of $30,000 (or $12,000) and not intended to be a gift, I would say forget it. Interest rates at any bank are low right now, it is a good time to borrow. If you were planning on borrowing $30,000, do it from a bank and not your family. I would say this is the better way to go even if you had the chance to borrow from your mom. Borrowing money from family just seems to bring out the worst in people, it is worth the extra interest you might pay to a bank to be rid of the hassle.
If the problem is that you need a down payment to buy a house, my advice is to ask a realtor about that. You might be surprised what you can buy with no down payment.
I just want to say that if I were you I would be pissed.
The people who are telling you that you are out of line (in my opinion) are nuts.
If I were you I would be very annoyed, and very upset. AND, every time I thought about the big remodeling job and the 5 carat diamond I would be even MORE pissed off.
BUT, in the interest of your health and your baby’s health (congrats on that, by the way!!!). I’m sure you know that it would be best to forgive and try to forget…
Maybe your mom could help by loaning you the additional $18,000 and you could pay it back in the 10 year time frame. That would show them that you are responsible enough to pay back what was loaned to you. It sounds like if they help your sister, they should be willing to help you, too.
ALTHOUGH, some parents get attitude when you borrow money from them, they feel like they should get to tell you what to do with it…
Only you really know what is going to be best for your situation. And before I for get to mention it: I wouldn’t sell my animals either, so I don’t blame you for not making that an option…
Anyway, I guess I’m just posting to let you know that I would feel the same if I was in your shoes. Just keep telling yourself that YOU aren’t the one who should be feeling bad. If anyone should, it’s your soon-to-be-bancrupt-because-she’s-living-beyond-her-means sister.
So good luck, and congrats again on the baby!!!
Thanks again folks.
Just thought I’d give a little update/background on our housing situation for those that are interested. Don’t read unless your really curious.
Details about us trying to buy a home here http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=200940
It’s been a lot harder than the teeming millions expected. Twice we were told flat out we could not buy a home, even with the 30 down. Finally found a loan officer that ok’d us at a $60,000 loan with monthly payments at only $410.00 with 12,000 down (I took some good advice and didn’t put the whole 30 down). We have been paying $450 a month for this cardboard box for over two years and haven’t been late once. So surly we can handle $410.
Now we are in the process of looking at houses that we can afford (keep in mind we have to have at least 3 acres). I’m getting disgusted at what’s out there in our price range. Nasty nasty stuff. Some really nice mobile and modular homes but haven’t found any that are bolted down on a concrete slab and we live in the butt end of tornado ally.
So now I’m looking into those home packages that you can buy from Lows and such. There is a two bedroom for 12,100. Of course that doesn’t include ‘fixtures’ like toilets. And constructing one will run just under 25,000. Then buy 3 acres at 4,000 an acre. Grand total of 49,100. Then add another 10,000 for odds and ends and we are in a BRAND new cute little home for $60,000. From what we are seeing sure couldn’t buy a nice place with land for that. Then of course when we sell it in 5 years we could make quite a nice profit. Similar set ups are selling for $93,000. Down side, have to have all the money up front.
This is where the sister problem comes in. I would have to have ALL she owes the sunset acct. right now. So I’m putting this little idea behind me and will continue looking for a house. Thanks again for all the great advice.
I think you may have missed some points here, bowert. See, grandpa was originally going to GIVE the money to sis. He felt that if he was going to DO this, he should in all fairness give the same amount to his OTHER grandkids. Seems fair to me, and to my father. (I ran this past him this morning.)
THEN, mom and uncle got into the act, and convinced him that instead of giving all three grandkids 30K each, he should just give the 30K to mom, and an identical gift to uncle. This money was to be used for their kids. Again, seems fair to me. (And ScottiDad.) Uncle is apparently not a very nice man, or maybe he is waiting until his child really needs the money and he is going to give it to her THEN. Mom lent the full amount to sis, expecting her to pay it back $250 a mo so that when MDM was ready to buy a house, the $30K would be there for her to do so. Remember, the gift was to be divided between the kids. Again, seems fair.
See, grandpa wanted all three of his grandkids to have the same amount. He was talked out of it by his kids. He expected his kids to make sure that the gift was handled in such a way that all three of his grandkids would get the money he gifted to his children.
According to my understanding of the situation, MDM’s sister owes her $3K. According to mom and dad, sis owes her $18K, because they had expected sis to pay back the total amount so that MDM would have it available when she decided to buy a house. MDM would have then been expected to pay back the entire $30K at $250.00 a month…the same as sis was supposed to do.
I don’t know what mom was going to do with the $30K once she got it all back, and that is a little bit disconcerting. I also find it a bit disconcerting that she and uncle talked him out of gifting each grandchild $30K as he originally wanted to do. Seems to me that a better plan would have been to put the $30K for each grandchild into trust accounts, to be managed by mom/uncle until they had a need that mom/uncle felt was valid enough to release the funds.
But then, I’m not there, and maybe there are reasons we don’t know about. My father says that people make their own choices, and in his mind, the only fair thing is to divide everything between his four children. They should then provide, out of this, for their own children. This means that in my family, anything dad gives NOW to one child, he gives the same amount to the rest of the kids. His will divides everything four ways. My deceased brother’s wife will inherit a quarter of my brother’s share, with the rest going to his (Rob’s) children. That is the amount she would have gotten had Rob lived, assuming that things were divided equally between them. (He had two daughters.) Dad says that it wouldn’t be fair for him to leave more to my sister, who has three children, than to me or my brother’s family or my other brother…just because she chose to have more children.
Of course, none of this takes into account the fact that Dad gets little or no support from any of his children except for me. So, I get all the work, they never see him, and it doesn’t change anything inheritance-wise. Am I bitter? No. He is doing what he thinks is fair, and I see his point. I respect him for it. I don’t do anything for the money anyway, I do what I do because I love him. I’d do it even if he cut me out of the will completely.
My point is, sometimes things aren’t really FAIR in terms of the way life works, even if they are fair “on paper.”
Still, I think you did an injustice to MDM in your post.
Yes, the $30k was an interest free LOAN. But free-loading Sis only paid back $12k over 10 years, which basically means she ended up with an $18k GIFT and a $12k interest free LOAN. If I were MDM, instead of asking for a $30k or even a $12k interest free LOAN, I’d ask for the $12k to be a GIFT, because a) sis ended up getting an $18k GIFT when all is said and done; and b) it’s more in line with what gpa intended to give in the first place.
Gpa is no longer a millionaire. There’s presumably no more money to be had since the stock market collapsed. So for MDM to EXPECT $30k is unreasonable. Because mom doesn’t have it, gpa doesn’t have it, and sis won’t give it. MDM can sit around and continue to seethe over money that doesn’t exist anymore or she can move on.
Take the money, with the gratitude that is due, and move on.
**
Now, about that house. Why does it have to have 3 acres? Is this a “need to have” or “like to have”? Buying a house at the same time that your husband has quit his job to go back to school seems like bad timing to me. Yes, you’ve been making a $450/mo. payment for years now. But that is presumably when DH was bringing in money. If it turns out you can’t make the payments and you default on your loan, or even if you are late a few months, your credit will be hurt and your chances of getting a loan in the future are significantly decreased. That’s a pretty big risk. If I were you, I’d clean up the trailer and stay there until DH is done with his college, I’d ditch the moldy trailer and move to an apartment for 2 years, OR I’d re-think DH going back to college right now. It seems unreasonable to me for you to expect to IMPROVE your living conditions AND take a significant pay cut at the same time.
Per her previous post I believe the 3 acres is primarly necessary for the two horses she owns.
Yes sir/mam you are correct. The acres are for the horses. If we settled for less acres or boarded them we would spend money out the wazzo on hay and grain, not to mention the boarding fee. Besides the fact that they would be wildly unhappy. Of course if it came down to it I would put our baby before my fur babies.
My husband has not quite his job. But for the next 3 months (because of a hectic school schedule) he will have to work less. In May he will be getting a huge raise. In the mean time I have dropped out of college and taken on a part time job until the baby comes. After which I will be taking care of our little one plus a friends 4 month old. If anything, we will be bringing home more money. So were not unduly worried about making our payments.
I can see why you’d be annoyed, MDB. There should have been this nice little set up for you, and your sister blew it out of the water. I have a feeling that if she were in dire circumstances, you’d probably be much more flexible, but the fact that she’s throwing money around while you’re having to wrestle some difficult circumstances because of HER choices has to rankle.
Overall, though, the news doesn’t look ALL bad from here. If you look at it without the backstory (which, I know, isn’t easy or necessarily fair)…you have access to a $12K down payment, a big income jump within a few months, and the ability to borrow the money you need for your new place. It sounds to me like you’re on the right track. Plan carefully, and take your time finding a new place. There’s got to be something perfect out there that will fall right into your price range, and the day you move into your own place–which you will get honestly, without screwing over a sibling–will be a sweet, sweet day.
And if your sis doesn’t have one hell of an income (actually, even if she DOES, because her situation just screams “unsecured credit debt” to me), she is going to be in very rough shape in a few years. Hopefully, you and hubby and baby, meanwhile, will be doing just fine because you’ve been able to maintain a level of financial discipline that she just can’t manage.
Good luck, hon.
Best,
karol
OK Scotticher, after reading your rationale (and everyone else’s), it does make more sense. It was pretty confusing at first.
MDM. President, it is a shame that your grandfather was talked out of his original intention. It does seem that the secondary intent was that you and your sister both somehow get the money. Now, with your explanations, it does sound like you are lucky to get $12K of the communal gift.
I’m sorry I jumped the gun - my first impression was of someone whining because someone else got a better gift than they did, and I don’t feel that’s right. Now it seems more like you were done a wrong, and you have a choice of making a huge family fuss and possibly not getting anything but tension, or dropping it and making do. Your house buying thread makes me think you’re doing the latter. Good for you - you scratch together what you can, and you’ll do fine eventually.