Am I a jerk?

In My Humble Opinion
1

I know you don’t know me, but let me explain…

Scene: Me and the family sitting around the fire pit, cooking some hot dogs for dinner last night. Not sure how the conversation started, but my stepson (18) trotted out the old “Daddy long legs spiders are the most poisonous spiders in the world, but their fangs are too short to pierce human skin, so they are harmless to us”.
I, of course, will not suffer ignorance in my own home, said simply “That’s not true, that’s a myth” (I said this, mind you, without a trace of derision or sarcasm… it is a widely believed myth that I myself once heard and believed in my youth).
So then his brother (12) pipes up with “No, it’s true. They did it on Mythbusters. They said its true”. So now I’m dubious. But to cap it all off, my WIFE (their mother) chimes in with “yup, its true. I saw the same episode. You’re wrong, just admit it.”

Well damn… what choice did I have? I pulled out my smart phone and did a quick search. And what do I find out? You guessed it, I’m right, it is a myth. Furthermore, the article i find mentions the Mythbusters episode, claiming that Mythbusters did investigate and also deemed the myth BUSTED. So it seems they all remember the episode, but forgot the conclusion.

So my stepson (the 18 year old) gets huffy and says something to the effect of “you can’t believe everything you read on the internet”. I said, I have a source, evidence of investigation, and a direct refute of what YOU claim to be a source, and all you have is what someone told you.

So a minor disagreement ensued, basically “why do you have to always be right?”. First of all, I have always interpreted that to mean someone who argues a point that either cannot be verified or argues a provable wrong position but refuses to accept evidence of their wrongness. This was neither. I didn’t HAVE to right, I WAS right… and wouldn’t have felt the need to prove it if their hadn’t been a pile on of people telling me I’m wrong.

If this was an isolated incident, I wouldn’t think much of it, but let me also share this from a couple weeks ago… My stepson (the 12 year old) is doing a biography project on Leonardo da Vinci. At the school’s curriculum night they present their work. He has to dress up as Leonardo and answer questions from the audience. No problem, he did his research and is pretty well prepared. Until someone asks him “how did Leonardo die?”. He doesn’t know, but rather than admit that, he says “one of the statues he was carving fell on him”:smack: (i didn’t witness him say that, I was looking at some of the other students work at that point, he told me afterwards). I told him “That’s not how he died!” He said, yes it is, i read it. I replied. “I’m pretty sure that if he died that way, it would be much more common knowledge”. He finally admitted that he never heard that in his research, he just made it up (he foolishly believed no one could possibly know he was lying). He said he didn’t want people to think he was stupid for not knowing. I said presenting a patently false statement as the truth makes you look stupider than just not knowing.
The next day, while riding i the car, I asked him “did you ever find out how da Vinci really died”. I mean, if it were me I would have looked it up to satisfy my own curiosity. He got real quiet, sunk his head down and looked out the window. His mom says to me “why do you have to make him feel stupid?” (presumably for bringing it up). The way I see it, I’m giving him a shot at redemption, not trying to rub it in.

So, two instances of other people feeling stupid for not knowing something that I did (their are many others, but who has the time?). That makes me a jerk? Should I have let them enjoy their ignorance? Is there no way to defend your position without coming across as a jerk?

I’m willing to bet that most of you Dopers have had similar experiences, please enlighten me. I am quickly getting a reputation for being insufferable.

2

Most people don’t like to be told they are wrong about things. And WIVES definitely don’t like that (I guess spouses in general)

I’ve begun to just say “I don’t think that’s right, you might want to look it up again” or just a quick “whatever, I’ve got meat to eat and beer to drink”

3

You may not have presented the facts nicely, but facts remain facts. I don’t think repeating falsehoods does anyone any good, and ultimately they’re going to get corrected. I think you did the right thing.

4

I’m going to guess you’re not coming off nearly as neutral as you believe. Also, I’d guess you, like most all human beings, are in a little denial about your own ‘need to be right’.

(If you don’t believe this then I double dog dare you to go two days without correcting anyone. Anyone. No matter who, no matter how very, very wrong! Even if you manage this challenge, the degree of difficulty it presents will still, I believe, more than make my point! You’re human, you DO kinda need to be right! Own it!)

They are your kids after all, they too will absorb your respect for accuracy, even if at moments, in their coming up, its not immediately apparent. You don’t have to teach them every little thing. They are at an age where they can learn these things on their own. Possibly the hard way. Possibly kinder than being chastised by their Dad!

You should be working on you and leave them be. You should look to mastering the thoughtful, “Hmmm,…are you certain you have that right?” (With no follow up!), “That’s not exactly what I believe to be the case, but, okay.”, even the can never be overused, “Indeed!” Your silence and unwillingness to correct may send them fact checking faster, and may prove more powerful than, just flat out correcting them ever could!

Just have confidence that they are going to get where you want them to be when it comes to accuracy. Have faith. They will get there on their own and don’t need you to lead them by the hand any more. Step back.

Just one opinion, of course, wishing you great Good Luck!

5

Not a jerk in my book.

Part A: There’s nothing wrong with being right all the time if you really are right. You backed up your comments with reasonably sound evidence. God I hate that casual “you can’t believe the internet” dismissal crap.

Part B: Making him feel stupid? Huh? You were trying to make yourself educated.

That being said manson1972 is right; “Most people don’t like to be told they are wrong about things.”

6

If you were being a jerk then everybody on this board who engages in the ‘Who is right’ competition is being a jerk. So yes, you were being a jerk.

7

So how did he die, anyway (da Vinci)?

8

With the daddy long legs thing, I think you took the right approach because you actually illuminated the problem of misquoting evidence to prove an inaccurate point. Although, in the army it was well-known that all field safety precautions would be futile if one allowed a daddy long legs to climb onto someone’s headgear. It was a well known fact the bug would anchor its hind legs onto the brim of your helmet or cap, and swing down and bite your eye, delivering the lethal bite while sucking juice from your eyeball. This precaution was delivered in every safety briefing in a deadly serious tone. Strange culture.

The Leonardo thing, well, growing up is a process that can take upwards of 50 years. Maturity and the strength to say, “I don’t know” develop alongside other things like learning how and when to correct someone in a constructive way. The seed was planted when you got him to admit he didn’t know, and it was no doubt an embarrassing process. It was probably not necessary to bring it up.

Character is a jungle of products of seeds planted throughout one’s life. Seed: check your sources. Seed: the ability to admit an ignorance is not the same as being stupid. Seed: certain people will take every opportunity to rub your nose when you’re down. Seed: the world appears different to everyone, and reality is highlighted by the varying degrees of maturity of the growth of their individual seeds. (aka: you never know just how you look through other people’s eyes)

9

This, IMHO, seems to be the heart of the matter.

I can’t imagine that you are a jerk full stop, but at least in these two situations you apparently acted in ways which your family saw as jerkish.

If you want to avoid such situations in the future, you might perhaps want to try to find ways to communicate with your family which do not put them in a defensive mode.

Like in the Daddy long legs situation, maybe say “that’s not how I remember it, but who knows,” instead of reaching for the cellphone to look it up. Or in the Leonardo situation in the car, just calmly point out that making your son “feel stupid” was in no way your intention, and that you would never intentionally do such a thing.

10

Old age, as far as Wikipedia knows.

11

That’s where I finally landed. A product of a coming across the phrase: "“It takes a man to suffer ignorance and smile.” Plus, I am terrible for spinning yarns for as long as someone is willing to believe (Chihuahuas were bred for fighting, Mexicans are embarrassed by corn muffins, etc.).

12

Daddy long-legs bit him.

13

Oh man, I LOVE being right! :smiley:

14

Yeah but Wikipedia is 30% errors.

15

Daddy long legs bite.

To the OP - I third (or whatever number it is, don’t go back and count :stuck_out_tongue: ) the “not as neutral as you think” probability. There is a huge difference between saying “That’s not true, that’s a myth” and “I’ve heard that before, too, and it got my curiosity up. I did some research and found a bunch of evidence to the contrary. I’d be glad to show you how I researched it if you’re interested.” The former sounds like an accusation, the latter a conversation. Allow the other party to save face and give them an opportunity to learn on their own. Sometimes ignorance can be down right dangerous, other times it makes no real difference. Really, what harm would come of believing the daddy longlegs story anyway?

And the correct answer your from your son should have been “I am he, and therefore am not dead. Next question, please.”

16

I agree with the rest of the post but I take issue here. If someone repeats a falsehood you know to be incorrect, you challenge them on it, and they stick to their guns, that’s not helping anything. I better response might be to say “well, let’s look it up and see what the facts are”, which is better than “let’s see who’s right”. But just ignoring it doesn’t seem helpful.

That said, I can understand there are situations where it’s not helpful to point out someone’s wrong, like when it’s a stranger, or your demented grandma that can’t remember what year it is, but for something like daddy long legs at a family BBQ, I think it’s better to instill a culture of “let’s look it up” rather than “well timmy heard it so I won’t argue”.
EDIT: Doctor Jackson makes a good point. You need to leave room for the other person to save face or they’ll get pissed off.

17

wide-eyed and trusting :eek: Wow.

18

Your son thought he was sharing a cool fact, and your younger son was backing up his cool older brother. You weren’t necessarily being a jerk, but you could have approached it differently.

Next time, try letting the kids take more of a role in the discussion other than being proved wrong. I bet they both have phones, right? Did you ever figure out what the most venomous spider actually is (the Brazilian wandering spider, apparently), or did you just debunk the daddy long-legs chestnut?

Possible scenario:

Kid: “The most poisonous spider in the world is the daddy long legs.”
You: “Nuh uh. It’s the tarantula. Look it up.”
Kids: scramble for phones, learn something new, gleefully prove you wrong in the process
You: winks at wife “Wow, I sure am a dummy, huh?”

19

I’m guessing it might have something to do with your approach. From the anecdotes given, it appears they’re united in defense of each other, which to me suggests that maybe there’s something to defend against.

Here’s the thing dude, everyone likes to trot out The Golden Rule, but in real life (especially with partners and family) that doesn’t really cut it. At all. Yet many people still approach relationships that way. You don’t treat people how you want to be treated, you have to treat them how they want to be treated. Sometimes the difference is enormous. For example, I greatly prefer brutal honestly. If I’m being a dick, tell me. If I’m putting on weight, point it out. If I’m not doing a good job, say so. That’s what makes me feel comfortable. Other people, surprisingly, not so keen on that…

Anyway, if I were in your shoes, my first order of business would be to sit everyone down together and be like, “Look, people, it’s never my intent to make anyone feel stupid. If I’ve done that I’m truly sorry. Yadda yadda yadda.” It doesn’t matter what you were trying to do. What matters is that there’s a pattern (as I infer from your post) of making your family feel not-so-great. That’s something you want to get in front of.

20

Would it make you feel good if I pointed out that it is incorrect to refer to the man as da Vinci? He is correctly called “Leonardo.”

He died at a ripe old age, according to legend, in the arms of the king of France, but that last big is probably strictly legend. However, he died of something that kills old people, like kidney failure, congestive heart failure, cancer, whatever. It wasn’t diagnosed at the time, and hasn’t come down to us.

I don’t fault you for correcting the Daddy-long-legs thing-- it bugs me too. But it sounds like maybe you could be a little gentler in the way you correct people, because when you did in this time, whatever you attitude may have been in this one instance, people reacted pretty strongly, like just your saying “Wait a minute…” puts people on the defensive.