It’s been 40+ years since I was a Scout, but I still have specific expectations of people who are my family, friends, business associates, and those I elect to office. I have never found a better description of those expectations than the Scout Law ("…is trustworthy, loyal, helpful, friendly, courteous, kind, obedient, cheerful, thrifty, brave, clean, and reverent.")
I just posted on another thread that I don’t just elect someone to do a job, I elect them to represent me with integrity and good judgment. In most cases, the Scout Law sums up what I look for very nicely. (Of course, it doesn’t address wildly inappropriate and stupid political POVs, but it at least helps make sure that they are sincere and acted upon in an honorable manner. You know what I mean.)
Am I a Victorian guy stuck in the twenty-teens? Am I a hopeless and unrealistic romantic? And, yes, I’m the guy who believes that the “small” lapses in integrity are suggestive of much larger ones.
(BTW, I usually interpret “reverent” as meaning “respectful of the religious views of others, regardless of one’s own views.”)
I was a scout. Those are pretty good attributes, but I’d ditch “obedient” (for adults, at least) and “thrifty” I’m not so concerned about. I’d like politicians to be thrifty with the public purse, but I’m not so concerned with how they spend their own money.
I was a cub scout, and I look back on the Scout Law as something that was aimed at kids, and specifically boys. I don’t think you can or should hold adults to the same standards, but it’s okay to be “naive and simplistic” if that how you want to view the world.
I was a scout, and those 12 points are still a good general measure of a person. To still use them today as a measure of a person, and to use them as an aid to help decide who to vote for, there’s nothing wrong with that. I sometimes use that yardstick as a general guide when interviewing applicants, to help determine ‘fit’. Regarding obedience in an applicant, if I’m hiring someone to be part of a team, there are some aspects of obedience that apply — not so much to be a minion who follows blindly, but more along the lines of following the team’s or leader’s decisions once they’ve been made.
I’d myself review the meanings of “thrifty” to “responsible and accountable” and of “obedient” to “knows when to be respectful of institutional order”.
But that is part of the issue: you begin with simple stuff and as you grow up you learn that there is nuance. Ideally you start from here and eventually have someone of good character who will respect legitimate authority but know when resistance is the moral choice; who will not be wasteful but will not be a skinflint; will be optimistic but know how to deal with negative situations soberly; will show kindness and seek to be helpful but not be a doormat; will be brave but not foolhardy; and so on.
I was in the military. I know that when you are deliberately rebellious just because, it provokes leaders to try to mess with you. I also know that when one guy shits his pants, everyone wears a diaper.
I could see people in my training units who were there supposedly to get money for college, who were not going to make it through college, because they were the kind of people who weren’t going to “get” why everyone, no matter what their major, had to take certain classes-- if you major in math, you still have to write papers; if you major in English, you still have to do science, and no matter what your major, everyone learns a foreign language.
In fact, it wouldn’t shock me if a lot of employers who want a college degree, but don’t care what it’s in, are looking for people who can follow a four-year plan, mostly independently, grok the rules, and get 'er done. People who drop out of college with half a degree just scream “Can’t finish what I started!” (Yes, I know there are lots of legitimate reasons for leaving school, but employers generalize; there are reasons for having bad credit, but employers still run it.)
“Obedience” doesn’t mean not having a will of your own, or not having the judgment to see when authority is wrong. A lot of it means knowing when to shut up, and some of it means knowing how to use a chain of command. Quite a lot of it means knowing that every job is going to have parts you like, and parts you don’t like, and you HAVE TO DO ALL OF THEM. Anyone who just wants to do the things he likes is of no use to an employer.
I don’t know how relevant it is to politics, but for anyone who has to work with other people in a position where they’re under someone else’s leadership or authority, I’d say obedience, suitably interpreted (which does not mean blind or unquestioning obedience) is an important quality.
And here I strenuously disagree. I sometimes wonder how much of our financial difficulties (at a national, state, and local level) are due to the large number of people in power who are well off and never really had to learn to be thrifty.
I obviously don’t hold an over-simplistic view of ALL of the adjectives in the Scout Law. Being “obedient” doesn’t mean just pushing the Jews into a gas chamber. (Ooops! I know…) But I certainly look for people who will follow reasonable, legal directions without reacting in some unpredictable manner because it offends their sense of autonomy.
Just about any of these traits can be carried to excess, but I certainly don’t want untrustworthy, disloyal, unfriendly, unkind, and unhelpful people for friends/co-workers. At least, if I have any say about it.
Personally, I tend to think of “disobedient” people as more “irresponsible.” Maybe a person has a job and is supposed to do X on a daily basis. It’s in the rules, they knew they would have to do it, and they have been instructed on how to do it. But, some people just don’t do it. Maybe I need to petition the BSA to add “responsible” to the list.
I might add that I mentally review this list when I write a business reference for an employee or associate. I try to make a statement, or address in some fashion, all twelve of these points. (Obviously, addressing “reverent” becomes more “respects co-workers and their opinions/beliefs.”)