Am I enlightened?

I have frequented this message board off and on for several years now, as I have found some of the debates to be interesting and so forth.

But now I submit my first post, as I am seeking a challenge from the logical, intelligent people who regularly post here.

I believe, that at the ripe young age of 22, I have stumbled upon enlightenment. And I ask you, the dopers, to try to find logical holes in my assessment and philosophy of life, as well as examine their implications with me as we delve ever deeper into what it actually means to be “enlightened.”
Now, it may happen that many of the things I will say in response to your inquiries will likely have been written about, spoken about, preached about before, possibly in a great many sources. You may simply accuse me of regurgitating the tired old maxims of the New Age movement, or similar such things.

I would counter that this acquisation of wisdom on my part is not necessarilly from books, although a great many helped guide me along, but has moreso been a venture inward into my own heart, a matter of feeling the present moment in silence, which has brought me such a profound fullfillment. Coincidentally, in the process, I may certainly have happened to come upon many of the same realizations as these authors, preachers, poets, etc. I hope that this does not take away from my credibility in this matter.
Further, I can assure you that my answers to your questions will not be intentionally researched through outside sources. Rather, I will come to such answers by sitting in silence, and allowing the answer to flow through me; I will be nothing more than a flute to where the breath of life soars through and manifests itself onto the screen ahead. I do this often, actually, with myself; writing things without any sense of where I am going with them, but merely flowing along, and I often find myself awed by the result. (I could share some of these writings and musings, upon your request.)

But now I feel that I have done enough writings and musings for my own accord, and that, perhaps, it would be of great mutual interest to take my experience to a public arena, and allow it to be examined, evaluated, and expanded in the direction that which you all choose to take it.

So go ahead; ask away. I look forward to the results of this discussion, as I am sure inspiration will flow out of me that which I have not yet seen. With all your help, we will dance a dance where neither one of us is leading, but which may create great beauty out of words, thoughts, feelings, and emotions.

“Love is the Movement… and the Rest.”

If this is “profound”, perhaps you need to revisit trivial. Sounds like you just want to talk but can’t think of a topic. (Did I guess right? What did I win?)

If this is “trivial”, perhaps you need to revisit profound.

You forgot to ask what the OP was smoking.

So, why don’t we start with your definition of “enlightenment”? :slight_smile:

Don’t tell your Dad. Trust me on this.

:slight_smile: :stuck_out_tongue: :smiley: :slight_smile: :stuck_out_tongue: :smiley:

You’ll get along fine here.

I thought it was a battlefield, myself.

Why does evil exist?

Why do people suffer? What happens to people after they die - do they have any kind of experience beyond the physical, or are they extinguished when their biological functions cease?

Heartache to heartache, we stand.

At 22, many people are ready to scoop up the world’s wisdom. You seem to be in that category, Friedah35, and it’s nice to see somebody go through that experience. I can’t quite figure out from your OP what sort of wisdom has you all aglow. It seems to be good for you, and I’m sure you’ll go into more detail later.

After a while, when you’ve had time to look back on this moment, you will probably see how far you still have to go. Don’t lose that joy of learning, but don’t ever think you have learned it all. The more you know, the more you realize how little you know.

Good luck to you.

Alright, fantastic. Let’s get started!

“You forgot to ask what the OP was smoking.”

This was obviously meant to be sarcastic, but I will address it anyway because I think it is a relevant point; the point being that to say something like “I may be enlightened” or something to such effect, is usually associated with losing one’s mind, something that often happens with certain drug use. And losing my mind is exactly how this happened!

Let me explain more clearly. And this actually addresses the second question, “What is your definition of enlightenment?” It starts with the “losing” of one’s mind. This is not to mean that one is crazy, but rather to say that their mind is no longer in control, the acknowledgement that there is a force in the absense of mind, all the while controlling the mind all along. The question is, whether the person realizes this dichotomy; That they must have the mind as a prerequisite resource to choose to have and appreciate the experience of no-mind.

The problem is, many people, contrary to this, associate themselves with their mind and see no other option. The concept of no-mind (a silenced mind) sounds like a complete waste of time. Rather, they define themselves by their mind, and likewise, allow their mind to define them. But, this is a misleading path, and exactly how the road to hell is paved with good intentions, because it is the egoic mind rationalizing such good intentions to get what it desires, when its desires can never be totally fulfilled. I would go so far as to say, in religious theology, it seems clear that all aspects of “evil”, of “original sin”, of “the devil” are all incarnations of the mind/soul problem. All evil derives itself from the actions of the egoic mind. The question is, how far is the ego willing to take it, and how hard must the mind work to keep the cognitive dissodance going, so that the rationalizations can keep making sense. The worst evil we have seen is merely a product of the ego getting so big, but we all have the capacity to follow in that path, under the right conditioned circumstances. This is hard to swallow, but the nature of the ego is to consume, consume, consume, and it will consume the world if it gets the chance. We have seen people try.

But back onto theology, think of the fall of Lucifer, for example: he would rather be the ruler of hell than a servant in Heaven. This has a symbolic significance. How many people do you see today who choose this path, in that they would rather gorge themselves with material, and temporary, pleasures, rather than acknowledge that none of it matters, that they are not their body, and that their body will eventually die, and thus all of the accomplishments they define themselves by, that they chose over the idea of being a servant in heaven? Now, this is not an “evil” path, but a path that cannot possibly lead to happiness or fulfillment. We label it “evil”, but it is simple a misguided way of life. The very fact of labeling something is to put it outside oneself, distance yourself from it, and in the process, contribute to the same ego structure as the evil person, only with a different narrative, one of relative righteousness. But the fact is, in this world, it is ALL relative, and the only meaning things have, are what our minds give them. As Shakespeare once said, “Nothing is inherantly good or bad. But thinking makes it so.”

However, I have certainly gone on a tangeant. For the record, I came to my “enlightenment” without the use of drugs. It actually came about due to a solemn abstenence from all intoxicants, including alcohol, weed, and any hallucinagens. In college, I had my fair share of all these things, and the bliss experienced by them was always a temporary one, which lacked any sort of significance. Shrooms, I will admit, gave me a sense of oneness with everything, but because I DIDN"T have my mind at the time, I couldn’t truly put it into perspective, which is the blessing of a life on earth with a human mind. You can truly appreciate life because it is relative to another moment, which may have been worse. Without a fully operating mind, it is impossible to articulate anything of value, and it is also impossible to put things into perspective. You want to be in the moment, but NOT trapped there at the mercy of a drug. Rather, the hope is that you get to a point where you can fully live in the here and now, but then come out of it for practical reasons, at will.

“Why do people suffer?”

People suffer due to their illogical cycle of attaching themselves to something, knowing on some level all along that it will eventually be lossed, and then being miserable once this loss occurs. Everything in this life is temporary. For fulfillment, we must come to terms with this fact of life, and then appreciate every moment with great gratitude, knowing that it could be our last. We must face loss with acceptance, and gratitude for the gift of the time in which we had whatever it was that was lossed.

But the more important reason why we suffer is to teach a profound lesson: That we will continue to suffer until we no longer form attachments. You may recognize this teaching from Buddhist theory, and you would be right. “All life is suffering” “All suffering stems from desire”. It is the ego which attaches, which defines itself by the things it has, and has not, and which constantly desires more, except when it is desiring what it once had, but lost, and feels as if it didn’t fully appreciate.

So how do you fully appreciate? Live in the here and now. Quiet the mind, and take in life. Don’t see death as the end all. That moves to the next point, “What happens to people after they die - do they have any kind of experience beyond the physical, or are they extinguished when their biological functions cease?”

We can not possibly know what exactly happens, and it is certainly the case that our human mind is unable to conceive such an idea. But, if we are to live in fulfillment here on earth, we must not carry with us the fear and anxiety of death. Death WILL happen. We must accept this. Our culture does not, and tries to ignore it, so that we can live with the illusion that the ego and its attachments live on forever. That is a fundamental flaw in our society, since, as we have already established, the ego and its attachments can NEVER lead to a fulfillment. So, in this way, we must assume the best: That death is not a bad thing, but rather, a natural process of life. Since we cannot know the answer, assuming the worst is equally as unprovable and illogical, and will only cause us stress and sadness in the meantime.

“After a while, when you’ve had time to look back on this moment, you will probably see how far you still have to go. Don’t lose that joy of learning, but don’t ever think you have learned it all. The more you know, the more you realize how little you know.”

I think that this was very insightful, and totally true. I would add that “enlightenment” is not the end all. If anything, it is simply the beginning. When it comes to wisdom, I feel that it is one of those things where no matter how close you get to fully grasping it, you never will entirely get there, but you can get exponentially closer in the process. I also believe, that once you begin this path, you start accelerating faster and faster down it, and your progress will grow at a greater rate, but all the while, with each additional step forward, part of the wisdom is realizing how infinitely far you have yet to go.

Heh. Before I saw this sentence, I was thinking, “It sounds like you’ve discovered (or invented) Buddhism.”

Personally, I find this sort of philosophy too negative, passive, and pessimistic for my taste. But if it works for you…

That’s basic Buddhism, true. But you’re presumed the existence of a teacher and a lesson, which is quite a tall order. What’s the source of your view that someone or something is trying to teach us a lesson?

I don’t mean to mock a sincere quest for enlightenment, but I already know that. :wink:

A wise man once said “If you believe you are enlightened, you are mistaken. True enlightenment comes only when you realise this.”

It’s not negative at all, actually, although it certainly looks that way on first glance. The way I’ve been taught, “suffering” doesn’t mean pain and misery. It’s better translated as “undergoing,” and it’s a reference to the cycle one gets drawn into after forming attachments to things.

Sure, Orthodox Buddhism is a bit of a buzzill, but Reform Buddhism, you get to eat pizza, drink beer and crack jokes.

22 uh?
Am I enlightened? That’s your title.

Are you a hot chick? Got any pictures? That’s all I need from a 22 yr old.