I tell ya, I learned something interesting from this discussion. It may be trivial to everyone else, but I’m kind of tickled to still be learning things about my own behavior and responses to stuff.
As I was musing along about the original NSFW thread, this thread, and my repsonse to each, I discovered that in my public persona I do not always want to be percieved as a sexual being. Odd isn’t it? And just as you say, that old nudity = sexuality is lurking around in there.
I think this is part of compartmentalizing parts of my self, and part of striving for a certain “top of mind” essence in my professional life. Seems as though, in order to consider myself being percieved as “competent” in my career, I downplay and sometimes neuter my sexuality. Not to the point of eschewing feminine styles or makeup, but that’s why I don’t show any cleavage (not that I have that much anyway!).
That ties into my inital reaction to the thread. Even though I’ve aquired a certain level of ‘community’ feeling here on the board, it still feels like a ‘public’ arena. Therefore all my internal rules and regulations apply. So initially it was like watching someone walk on the edge of a cliff.
These threads raised some issues with me which led to a greater understanding of myself. Pretty cool.
I agree that my comment you quoted isn’t really necessary to the argument until you realize the spirit in which I wrote it (which is not apparent). I meant it more in the vein of “I only want to see porno models naked to get off or my lover naked to get off if the picture is explicit and not artistic really in nature, and I don’t understand people wanting to see people they sort of know/are associated with but are NOT lovers with, naked in a sexually explicit manner.” I don’t want to see my buddies naked, or my coworkers, or people in class. I don’t sexualize nude photography and art unless it seems to me it’s meant to be sexualized. A cock snapshot in your bedroom does not seem like art to me - it’s a cock shot. But I’ve seen plenty of photos with nude models where I can see the point is not in any way pornographic or to excite anyone sexually.
I do admit I adhere to our culture and the way it has made nudity a taboo. It’s hard not to. Nudity to excite sexually is the norm and nudity for a higher purpose (art etc) is much more rare, and I place nudity I see in one of those categories. Cock snapshots go into “to sexually excite.” Paintings, nude model drawings, art photography go into “higher purpose.” This is not infallible. By reading the NSFW thread again it appears a person or two have posted “art” shots whose only purpose are not “here’s my hard cock” or “here are my tits.” I would take a different stance on these photos because their point isn’t “look at this and get horny” or “you looking at this makes me horny.”
My biggest thing is I don’t see the point of the thread beyond showing off your junk. I wouldn’t be scared to show people my body, I just view it as a private thing. For the people posting artistically shot, artistically intentioned photographs in which they happen to be nude, it feels different to me. But just posting up your junk “here’s my junk, do you like it?” etc is weird to me and not what I expected to see here.
Oh, and on preview. Fuck you, Green Bean. I’m sorry if I feel the need to defend or explain myself when others misinterpret. Like all the people accusing me of being a prude? I’m not one. I didn’t post this thread because I hate myself and I have body issues. And people on this board never seem to fucking read what you are actually saying, they just pick what they see that pisses them off and reply to that, over and over. So I reply, over and over. I must have offended you, you’re so mad that I’m repeating myself. Go post your cock or boobs online somewhere, it’ll make you feel better.
Although I haven’t looked at the thread yet (at work right now), I’m probably more in agreement with iampunha and astro than anyone else. And I’m actually a bit surprised at Silver’s response. In 9 years there’s not much I haven’t seen on this board. True I don’t recall any specific naked pictures posted in an open thread before…whoops…yes I do. Hey, Opal are you vanity checking? As I recall a few years ago she did a risqué calendar thing with doper photos. There may not have been out and out nudity but it wasn’t far off. But MPSIMS has almost always been the flirt/hookup forum. 6 years ago I probably would have posted to it myself.
But (to me at least), the SDMB is a community. One that grows and changes with time…as we all do. But with a crop of new posters who always keep things interesting. After a while you see the same things a few times and you just kind of shrug your shoulders and think “Eh, the new kids are talking about that again”.
I can understand that you believe that nudity should only be shared with someone that you have an emotional connection with. But like a lot of issues and topics that come up on this board, that is just your belief. That doesn’t make it true for everyone. Just like there are dopers that believe in casual drug use (pot), open marriages, veganism, or any one of a thousand other beliefs that differ from your own. But different doesn’t mean wrong, or even creepy.
Although I haven’t read the thread, I’m fairly certain that it’s more of a titillation thread than an artistic one. Although some of the photo’s may have artistic merit. So what? So some segment of the doper population wants to show off their naughty bits, and some other segment wants to look at those pictures for gratification purposes? Meh…happens all the time really. Or at least it used to. Posting parties resembled orgies more often that social discussions.
In a way, I am a bit upset that posters that have true artistic images that they’d like to share feel put off. Unfortunately given the number of people on the board there are bound to be some that will reap a sexual reward off of just about any nude photo, which means that those of us that might have enjoyed it’s artistic merit are bereft of the pleasure in seeing it. shrug…had the calendar thing still been around that might have made a great photo for whichever cancer Kaio had awareness month.
Heh. You’re free to do whatever you wish, and I’m free to draw my own conclusions about your arrogance or lack thereof based on how you behave. I will say that if someone feels a need to tell me how great he is, instead of letting it speak for itself, it kinda makes me go :dubious: (and occasionally :rolleyes: ).
If we’re having a discussion on art/literature/ethics/whatever and he’s either keeping up with me or blowing me away, I already know he’s smart. I don’t need a pie chart.
I did open it, I didn’t complain about it, I didn’t post to it, and it’s existence doesn’t bother me at all. Fair enough?
And Green Bean, that’s just dumb. The OP was just trying to make it clear that she’s not nonplussed by this because she’s ashamed of herself. Which, of course, a few people seem to believe has to be the one and only reason. See above.
Well, I’m off to photocopy my balls on the office copier and accidentally leave it there. Libertad!
I for one am not in any way saying that it’s something to be ashamed of. I’m saying it’s about context. If I go to a play party, I expect to see naked bits. If I go to a porn site, I expect to see naked bits. Here, I have come to expect reasonably intelligent discussion, which happens even when people are getting silly. Yeah, I looked at the thread and some of the pictures; I was hoping for a discussion on artistic nudes, found that was for the most part not the case, and left. Again, the strength of my objection is limited to “nothing for me here, so I’ll go elsewhere”, but I find it disappointing because I don’t consider this place to be a porn site. It’s out of place here.
I think it’s partly the way we as Westerners are socialized, too. You can take nude photos where you are just naked and it’s not a big deal. An erection is A Statement. You can rail about how it “shouldn’t” be that way all ya want, but it is that way and it’s something you have to work with if you want to post up and talk about nude photos. A photo of an erection is going to get a strong reaction, and I think most adults that have been socialized in Western culture are well aware of this. Nudity doesn’t bug me, as I’ve said repeatedly now, but if you feel a need to show me an erection it does make me wonder what, exactly, you’re trying to prove. Why are you going for the really strong reaction, when you can (and did) post photos that are just as nude but not the Statement? It makes me think you’re deliberately going for shock value, there was no greater context where it seemed that the shock was a needed part of your message (as in, for example, war photography, where the shock value is important to getting across How Bad It Is), so it ends up coming across as attention whoring to me, whether you intended it to be so or not.
What’s a ‘pornography model’? Is that the same as a porn star or porn actor? Or do you use the term specifically because you only view still photos? And only solo male models? Do you not like the naked female form at all?
Sure enough. All I’m saying is that how you come across to others is not always how you intended to. FWIW, I thought you looked just fine flaccid. I’ll spare you the art critique since that probably wasn’t the intent (I am a huge photography nerd, though, I automatically go there). I also think that most adults are aware of how biology works in terms of size or whatever, so an actual demonstration wasn’t strictly needed for us to get the point. It wasn’t til I got to the “salute” that I went :rolleyes: .
BTW, I’m actually really enjoying the discussion the NSFW thread has spawned here. Snarky mockery aside (which I don’t appreciate), it’s been interesting to analyze and discuss our reactions and where they’re coming from.
I don’t know if it’s possible to consider this for the future (if it happens again in the future), but I’d personally prefer some indication in the title of a thread what tone you’re going for. NSFW indicates visible naughty bits, but I have no way of knowing if that means porn-style or art-style, short of actually clicking links and perhaps seeing things I have no interest in seeing. I have something to contribute to an art-nude thread. I don’t for a porn thread.
And, oh, it was Hodgkin’s Disease. I’m honestly not sure if it has its own awareness month.
Kaio, I only quoted your post because it seems to be representative of what many in this thread are thinking.
People, for such a left-leaning, ideologically liberal board, some of you are some seriously conservative when it comes to nudity and sexuality. Forget the “if you don’t like don’t open it” sentiment… Sure, you can cruise the NSFW thread for artistic images, but seeing an erection or blatantly pornographic image of another doper isn’t going to kill you. Look at the thread, or don’t. No one cares. But If it’s going to be an utter shock to your system to see an unexpected penis or tit, then take a good hard look inside yourself and ask why.
I said that because we’re talking about nude photos here, not nude video. I just meant someone who poses professionally in explicit photos for the purpose of getting people off.
I don’t tend to look at many nude photos for sexual reasons, but when I do I prefer pictures of men only. Only because I’ve found lots of women in those kinds of photos to look very fake and unattractive, and the pictures to be often too graphic for my taste (like super hardcore). If I easily found free erotic photos of attractive men with women together that looked like people you see in Hollywood, I’d be down. But with gay male pornography being a huge business, it’s a cake to find hot naked guys. And if I’m gonna look at photos like that for sexual reasons, I want the models smokin hot. And I don’t know why you accuse me of not liking the female form…I’ve never indicated that.
I would view a NSFW photo thread if it was artistic in nature. I like talented photography and paintings. Then it’s not all about the hard-on. There is something to talk about other than girth, length, or mean comments.
I intended to show the goods and possibly give some people a bit of enjoyment at seeing them - from the comments I received in that thread and this one I know that I succeeded in a few cases.
That you felt I crossed some line I shouldn’t have done (or did so unknowingly) isn’t my concern. Feel free to argue with my intentions and the rightness of them all you want, I really couldn’t care less.
Creepy isn’t really the word, I’d say. Juvenile and tired is more along the lines of what I’m thinking.
Maybe it’s just that I’m aging, here (and I am). I find this sort of thing to be played and trite. “Look at me! I have a dick!” is so overdone it would be like taking the time out of my day to watch a sitcom: what’s new that’s worth seeing? Nothing.
As I said, maybe it’s age. Nude bodies are something I have quite a bit of experience with at this point and seeing people, in essence, bragging about theirs is just dull. It’s like those people who WILL go out of their way to brag about their cars. It’s really only interesting to them and a very small subset of the rest of the world.
Still, open the thread all you want, don’t let me stop you. But don’t deceive yourselves that it makes you interesting or avant garde or anything. It just makes you the latest in a several thousand year chain of people that think nudity is good at some point in their lives.
Not, I suppose, unlike the fascination that the Internet brings out in pornography. At this point I’m surprised we’re all not numb to any form of sexual stimulation at all given how overloaded the western world can be.
I still enjoy sex, clearly. But I also am glad I’m at a point where it’s just one piece of the puzzle. A good book is just as pleasurable as getting laid and, frankly, it lasts longer and broadens the mind.
I’m saying that it defeats the purpose to say “Don’t look if you don’t want to see,” if I have no way of knowing if I want to see until after I’ve looked. No, it won’t kill me, but I’d rather not waste my time digging around for something I might want to contribute to if it’s not there, either. Or miss it because I assumed it wasn’t there and didn’t look.
I’ve actually said none of this. I explained how I reacted and why. It wasn’t what you were going for. shrug I wasn’t even discussing “rightness,” that’s your word, not mine. The farthest I went was to say that there are sociological and cultural factors at work in the way people react to particular kinds of photos. And that you can be aware of this and work with it, or you can rail against it, but railing won’t make it go away. It is entirely up to you how you respond to and work with the culture you find yourself in. There is absolutely no judgment here, it’s a matter of environment, actions, and consequences. The way things are, not the way I (or anyone) wish they were.
You acted, there were reactions, you can get angry about it, but for the reasons I posted above they weren’t unpredictable reactions. What you do with that is up to you.
This is, by the way, an academic discussion to me, not thundering self-righteous fury. I enjoy sociological and psychological exploration, and this discussion has made me discover things and think about things in a way that I haven’t before. That’s the only reason I’m here.