:::applause:::
Well said, JTR.
Granted, I lost my temper here.
Blame it on my feeling of helplessness. Blame it on the fact that this has caused me to rehash a lot of unpleasant emotions that stemmed from the sudden death of my aunt last January. Blame it on me being bitchy and oversensitive and overdramatic on occasion.
I still think it’s uncouthe to go around declaring how hot the murderer of 5,889 innocent people is, and I still think Lucky should have been much more considerate before posting this. But I apologize for the hearty “fuck you” I gave to everyone.
Thank you, JTR. Point taken.
No more posting before my morning coffee.
JTR, I understand your point but I think that the analogy between Marines joking about before a battle and Lucky’s highly unfortunate lack of tact are different.
Anyone in the military is fully aware that the uniform makes one a potential target. That’s just part of the deal. This is especially true for military personnel who are in, or on their way to, a battle zone. You have the training, physical and mental, that allows you to cope with that situation. You know that you are a target, you know that you could die, and you relieve stress with your buddies by making jokes about inconsequentials. Entirely understandable.
But that is not the case here. This was an attack on a civilian target, the victims were primarily civilians, and not one of us was prepared.
While I do not think that joking is inappropriate, I do believe that publicly posting one’s opinion that bin Laden is “hot” is disgusting. This is not a small cadre of military buddies ; it is an international public forum.
At the time Lucky made her “joke” (and I am not convinced that she was joking,) several of us had already posted about lost friends and relatives. By 9/14, my personal count was: one friend dead, a friend’s brother dead, a friend’s parents dead, a friend’s fiancee dead, my lab partner was in Portland helping her best friend whose brother (and his entire workgroup) was dead. I’ve had several e-mails from still more friends asking for help sending out resumes because the company they worked for was gone. Completely gone. I have lost sleep, neglected schoolwork, donated money and time, and twice almost fainted from lack of proper nutrition. (I’m hypoglycemic.) To say that I was appalled and offended to see this post would be a mild understatement.
I’m not going to vilify Lucky, so many others have already handled that job. But I will say that I have little but pity for someone so lacking in common sense and common curtesy.
If someone wants to make a “joke” about bin Laden’s looks, then fine. I’ve managed a few feeble jokes about other things this week. But I did so to folks who know me well and share my sense of humour, not on such an open forum.
Dave thank you for making me laugh!
xhceopis,
I’m not going to defend the point ad infinitum, so I’ll say one more thing, then I’ll drop it.
We’ve all agreed that it was tactless. Even Lucky anticipated that she would be flamed and said as much in the OP. So you’re not saying anything new here.
Meantime, there’s a bigger story here than simply “I lost a friend in this tragedy.” The story is only half-way over. The other shoe has yet to drop. There’s a fairly large-scale military operation being undertaken, and pretty everyone in America (if not the world) is a little uneasy, waiting to see how it’s going to go, wondering how it’s going to affect their lives. Some are handling this situation with solemnity and gravitas, while others are acting a little giddy and silly. I understand both reactions.
I’m not saying that your point is wrong. If I had lost a friend or family member in the attacks, I might be more than a little peeved at any bit of levity that anyone might express about the situation. But I didn’t. So when I saw Lucky’s post, I laughed. I don’t think that makes either her or me a monster. It just makes us human.
Yes, it’s tactless and lacking in courtesy. We’ve already agreed on that. But the SDMB is traditionally known as a place where we can be a little tactless and say the things that we couldn’t say in good company.
Meantime, I think there’s a positive aspect to humor of this sort. People have been acting paralyzed by the WTC and Pentagon attacks. You see it here on the SDMB–They’re not sleeping, they’re getting panic attacks, they’re ranting and breaking down over any little thing. And I’m not just talking about those who were directly or even indirectly affected by the attacks. I’m talking about those who aren’t even remotely connected.
As such, a little humor has a beneficial role to play here, the same as it did for us Marines as we waited for our turn to go into combat. A little humor helps people to let go of that initial shock–that initial feeling of horror and personal vulnerability–and allows them to begin to catch up with daily life again. Lucky’s joke was as about as innocuous and silly as a joke can be under these circumstances. I think that it’s a legitimate opportunity for people to laugh a little.
I understand that those who lost a friend or a relative in the attack aren’t going to appreciate much of any kind of joke right now. They still have a lot of grieving to do. They’re not ready to move on. But the rest of us have to move on. The rest of us have to get back to sleeping an 8-hour night, eating big meals, making love, farting, cracking jokes and doing all those other things that people do once things get back to normal. There’s still more of this drama to be played out (the capture or death of bin Laden), and the nation as a whole doesn’t have the luxury of sitting around transfixed in horror and shock and grief indefinitely. Like the Marines sitting around and waiting to go into combat, some of us have to be able to move on, to recover, to get back to normal, get a good night’s sleep, and be at our best for what comes next. And to do that, you have to be able to let go of what happened. You have to be able to laugh when the opportunity arises.
Well, I’ve said my piece. I know I’m not going to get everyone to agree with my point of view, especially those with relatives or friends who died in the WTC and Pentagon attacks. So I’ll stop arguing this point and allow the vilification of Lucky (and me, if you want) to continue without further comment. In the meantime, xhceopis, I’m sorry to hear of your own losses. Genuinely sorry.
Typo. That should be xcheopis and not xhceopis. Sorry about that.
Well, JTR, everyone of my friends would tell you, “That Slip, he’s such a cut up. Always the clown. At the golf course, at the bowling alley, at the poker table.”
And if I was able to scrutinize Lucky’s post with the world’s most powerful microscope, I still wouldn’t be able to detect a speck of humour there.
To me, there’s no fine distinction between funny and insensitive.
And this was insensitive to the max.
No fear, I’m not inclined to vilify you. There is no reason to do so. I do understand your point and you seem to understand mine and there we are. No worries.
(As an aside, I’ve been doing reasonably well with getting on with life. I still show up to labs prepared and I still get my work done. It’s just that I’ve been up late comforting friends at 3:00 a.m. and eating too much bread [my comfort food] and not enought protein. My jokes have all been anaemic versions of my normal sense of humour but I have had a few laughs. Thanks for the thought, I do appreciate it.)
Sorry Lucky, while I defend your right to post whatever you feel I have to say you are seriously fucked in the head for posting it.
If only I’d been born good-looking, I could’ve been a monster, and the babes would still dig me.
Oh, well, maybe it’s not too late to become rich.
I thought it was interesting you started this in the pit, Lucky, you cock-eyed biatch.
Shame on you for salting the wounds of all those affected by that fuckin’ A-rab viper.
You are a soul-less, good-fer-nuttin’ shiteating hemmorhoid scar. Oh yeah, you make the baby Jesus cry, too.
bin Laden hot?
Well, if you like the Dr. Kavorkian-on-steroids look-alike, complete with a scraggly beard, periscope-like proboscis, and distafully clad in the new Armani for Murderers couture line while liberally sprinkled with “Rancid Eau du Goat”…have at it.
Damn it, Opal!
I was not prepared for that!
I’m shaking my head. I wonder if someone like Lucky could be a threat to national security. I mean, let’s say this mad man somehow showed up in the U.S. (far-fetched). He’s on the international wanted lists of most law enforcement agencies. Would someone like Lucky harbor this fugitive because in Lucky’s mind the dude is “hot?”
I’m hoping this is a joke on Lucky’s part.
I hesitate to revive this thread, but this is on today’s Salon.com:
Bin Laden’s creepy charisma
http://www.salon.com/news/feature/2001/10/12/osama_appeal/index_np.html
And apparently, Lucky, someone else agrees with you.
Bert, from Sesame Street.