It’s been a long time since I read the Silmarillion, but a quick look at the Tolkien wiki tells me the Istari didn’t arrive in Middle-Earth until around the year 1000 of the Third Age, a good 3000-ish years or so after when this is taking place.
Then again, they’re playing fast and loose with the canon as is what with Mordor being green farmland populated by free men subject to elven occupation and Orodruin being an intact snow-capped mountain, so all bets are off as to one of them showing up early.
Having now watched the second episode, there’s definitely a sort of slippery time-scale happening here. It ought to have taken months for Elrond and Celebrimbor to travel from Lindon to Eregion (which canonically Galadriel ought to have been lord of around this time) and on to Khazad-Dum, and yet it seems to happen parallel to the other scenes which seem to all take place the day after the starfall. I’m having flashbacks to the early seasons of 24 where Jack Bauer was able to get from one end of LA to the other, during rush hour traffic, in the span of a commercial break.
In a continuation of the Dragon Age influences from before, Khazad-Dum and its people definitely look and feel a lot like Orzammar, between the subterranean agriculture, the architecture, the references to the Stone as a living thing, and the use of “sod” as a swear word. It’s a little odd to see an LOTR series taking artistic influences from a work that was itself inspired by Tolkien.
Theo’s broken Morgul-blade is going to get his whole village killed, isn’t it?
As to the Stranger, my guesses at this point, in order, are as follows;
I’ve heard the show has been getting “review-bombed” due to stuff like diversity and what I presume is general “nerd rage”. But I have to say I kind of agree with many of the negative reviews in that it’s gorgeous but a tad boring. Maybe I need to watch it when I’m well rested but I keep literally falling asleep during the show.
I’m not expecting “blood and tits”, but with perhaps the exception of Elrond’s visit with the dwarves and Galadriel’s odd boat trip, I’ve had trouble getting engaged with the story.
Also, I’m not clear if the show is considered an actual prequel or tie-in to the Peter Jackson films. But Kate Blanchet’s Galadriel and Hugo Weaving’s Elrond are so iconic that their younger versions feel “off” to me. Was Galadriel some sort of Xena Warrior Elf Princess in her younger days in Tolkien’s canon? And I find it distracting that Young Elrond is played by the same actor who played Young Ned Stark, given that Sean Bean was in LOTR too.
I liked it. As everyone is saying, it’s gorgeous and sets a new standard for TV production values. The second episode in particular ups the tempo with some genuinely exciting moments with the orc attacks.Elrond is probably my favorite character and I particularly enjoyed his visit to to the dwarves. By contrast Galadriel is rather one-dimensional, and obsessed with the search for Sauron.
Comparisons with the new Game of Thrones show are inevitable. In both cases I haven’t read the specific books but am broadly familiar with the franchise. However I find Dragon much clearer in its plotting. The main theme about the succession is laid out in the intro and the rest follows logically from there. Ring is more confusing ; there are a lot of places and peoples and it’s not clear what is happening. This is not a criticism; both styles of storytelling can be compelling and there is a pleasure in gradually piecing together the puzzle. I like both shows around the same so far.
IIRC, she was always more of a politician than a general or a warrior. Eowyn notwithstanding, women warriors just aren’t a thing in Tolkien’s legendarium.
It’s honestly a little weird seeing Elrond and Galadriel treat each other as contemporaries and equals, given that she’s roughly 10,000 years or so older than him and is his future mother-in-law.
Morfydd Clark looks enough like a young Cate Blanchett that it works for me, but I can’t see Robert Aramayo growing up to be Hugo Weaving (even though he does sorta have the right kind of scrunched-up face).
It seems to me that the stranger from the sky is going to be one of the Istari . . .probably one we haven’t had in the Rings/Hobbit trilogies. . .though I admit I was thinking Radagast for some reason.
The show was GORGEOUS, really beautiful, but the only part that really grabbed me were the Dwarves scenes. I did like where Elrond was trying to regain Durin’s friendship. Galadriel trying to swim all the way back was ridiculous. . .and what’s up with those ships? The elves stood in formation on-deck for the whole of the voyage? They’re treated as cargo, one step away from being stacked like cordwood.
I hope things improve a bit. It’s early yet. It really is stunning to look at.
I liked the images of the inside of khazad dhum, (sp?) , But i didn’t like the part where Elrond was trying to compete, and Durin acted like an ass. I thought the dwarves we’re being treated as comic relief, not as people. That was something that bothered me in the LOTR movies, too. The friendship between legolas and gimli was replaced with one between legolas and aragorn, and gimli was relegated to comic relief.
We have hobbits for comic relief. Dwarves are serious.
I think i identified with the dwarves when i first read LOTR, so i kinda take that personally.
Also, Tolkien’s dwarves are at least partly inspired by the Jews (and i suspect i recognized that as a kid, and that’s why i identified with them). This movie leaned into that, with a lot of the dwarves having stereotypically Jewish features. So i feel “my people” are being used as comic relief here.
Also, i was sad that the female dwarves didn’t have beards. They were supposed to have lush beards like the men, and it’s was hard for non-dwarves to know whether a dwarf was female.
I’ve enjoyed the first two episodes, I’ll keep watching.
Some points, however. When Galadriel was in the north, chasing Sauron, her “army” was getting rather demoralized. When they wanted to turn back, a better argument would have been, “And what would we do if we did find Sauron? We barely survived against that frost troll.”
I don’t know all that much about the lore outside the movies and books, I’ve picked up a little from discussions here, but that’s about it, so I actually assumed that the man from the sky was Gandalf. Especially given that the hafling harfoot that found him is, IIRC, one of Bilbo and Frodo’s ancestors, she has the surname, anyway. It wasn’t until the fireflies died that I thought that maybe he was someone else, someone a bit more evil, but who? I have no idea.
I thought he looked like a young Neil Patrick Harris, myself.
The lady-dwarves -with-beards ship has sailed. I knew they’d never make that a thing on TV. I was disappointed as well - just not surprised at all.
I said I liked the dwarves, but really I liked Prince Duran and Elrond’s interactions. How Durin acted like an ass, but over time, we grew to understand how deeply Elrond’s absence had cut him. Oh, and Khazad-dum. That was incredible as well. I agree that dwarves were played for clowns far too much in the movies, and the Gimli-Legolas friendship suffered (though did not disappear) to serve the Legolas-Aragorn friendship. Gotta give more time to the lead. . .I suppose.
I guess the Prince and King were looking at the arkenstone in episode 2. That or the contents of Marsellus Wallace’s briefcase.
Well by anything I can recall reading the Wizards arrived by ship.
The Magical Meteor doesn’t fit the legendarium at all.
All indications are that Gandalf, Saruman and Radagast arrived in the third age, most of what the Professor wrote has them arrive 1000 Third Age. The Blue Wizards are much more up in the air, as early as 1600 Second Age to as late as 1000 Third Age, though almost everything he wrote had them preceding the other, better known three.
Absolutely not Bombadil, Bombadil was short and was pretty much already in Western Middle Earth as the trees first grew.
While Sauron shouldn’t have arrived via Magical Meteor and shouldn’t know about Harfoots or Hobbits, he was a Fire oriented Maia that was of Aulë’s effectively Smith & Craft God people originally as was Saruman so somewhat thematic.
The fireflies dying would seem to rule out Radagast as he was a Maia of Yavanna effectively the Nature Goddess. He was friend to all animals.
It is very important that Gandalf arrives at the Grey Havens after the rings are forged and Sauron lost the One Ring as Cirdan gives him the Ring of Fire to help Gandalf help others.
So no matter who this stranger is, he breaks sadly canon.
Though a Blue Wizard would probably break it the least.
That was my assumption as well, especially with the King being a bit paranoid about the timing of Elrond’s visit.
I assume they recently found it, but already covet it and are afraid others will try to take it from them.
So, do you think that makes it more enjoyable to not know much of the surrounding lore? Like I said, I thought it was Gandalf till the fireflies thing (and it still could be, that may have been an accident, not intentional harm), but from what you have said, that’s more or less impossible according to canon.
If this show does break canon, is that going to turn off those who are invested in Tolkien’s original timeline?
The Arkenstone was canonically found in the Lonely Mountain, both in “The Hobbit” novel and movies, so it doesn’t make sense for it to show up here. I think it was mithril in the box - that’s what caused the downfall of Khazad-Dum after all - the discovery of mithril, causing them to delve too deep and wake the Balrog - aka “Durin’s Bane”. Disa’s speech about listening to the mountain to decide where to dig and where to not dig would be foreshadowing of that - there will probably be future scenes where she says their continuing mining after mithril is dangerous and against the “wishes” of the mountains.
I agree it was probably mithril. The Arkenstone would be very strange for Moria.
So Galadriel is now a kick-ass warrior, will she show off any sorcery to go with it? Will she have a scene will she reveal her light to turn the undead?
I don’t mind a 2200 year old knowing how to fight extremely well, but I hope she retains the powers she canonically had.
BTW: someone above thought Galadriel was 10000 years older than Elrond; no. It is suppose to be around 1600 Second Age I believe in the show. If Galadriel was a little girl when the trees were destroyed (which is basically wrong) then she was around 600 when the 1st Age ended. (590).
Elrond was born 58 years before the end of the 1st Age (532)