America needs a Conservative Party. Discuss.

Great Debates
1

I wish I could write a manifesto. I wish I could write to raise the rabble, to start a movement. But I cannot. Someone else must.

I am a Libertarian. Some call that a Liberal doctrine, some say it is conservative. Call it what you will. I will accept the conservative label.

America needs a Conservative Party. We need a party that rejects Nativism, that rejects all forms of welfare payments (at least mostly), that embraces the Free Market and rejects those things that distort it.

Conservatives believe in the Cowboy Way. Leave a man alone as much as you possibly can. Mind your own business. Lend a hand when you need to.

We do not think America is a white Christian country. We are not willing to give up spare ribs or bagels and humus.

We (generally) do not care who people kiss or where. We don’t even want to think about it. Unless they are cute.

We are not in favor of big companies, or big government or big farms. We are in favor of money, booze and sex, almost anything to have a good time. We also love families, children and puppy dogs. We think we can have a better time with no government help than with its interference. Leave us alone and let the party begin.

We give blood. We are volunteer EMTs and firemen. We give to the Red Cross. We are keep our ALCU card in our wallets next to the NRA cards and let them fight it out between themselves.

We are anti-abortion, but we certainly do not want to tell a lady what to do.

We are equally embarrassed by George Bush and Jesse Jackson. (What would Ron Reagan and Martin Luther King think of these two?)

We believe in God. Or perhaps we want to believe. Or perhaps we hope there is a God. We do not think he an intergalactic hockey player who punishes sinners or cities in this life. We do not think he speaks to us through people on the TV. He talks to us in person when He wants to.

That is it. Flame me, pit me. Darn shame the Body politic has become what it it.

2

So **Paul ** what is the debate. I agree with most of what you said. Not all but enough. Of course I am more embarrassed by W.
Sounds like you would allow pro-choice while personally disagreeing with it.
How do you fell about drug legalization?
What would you do with the those truly unable to work for a living?
How do you feel about universal Health care? (It would help small businesses and farmers)
CO[sub]2[/sub] emissions?
I don’t believe in churches, I don’t pretend to know about God(s).
Would you work to preserve green space for Kids, Hunters, Cowboys and Bird Watchers?
Would you maintain a strong military and Navy?
I only carry the Blood Donors card. No NRA or ACLU.
Do you believe in Honor, I am guessing you do?
I am Happy I can keep my Canolis. Can some of friends keep their Cannabis?

I can’t flame you.

Jim a Green Republican or Bull Moose Party.

3

I’m curious about one thing.

Would you describe what your America with no help for the working poor would look like?

People starving?

Bread lines?

Crime?

4

Okay, reasonable enough. But permit me to ask for a few details on your party’s platform.

What’s your position on foreign policy? Are you isolationist or interventionist? Would you favor defensive treaties with other countries?

What’s your policy on enviromental regulation? Do you say “hands off” and allow a company to dump chemicals into a river that has a million people living downstrwam?

Do you allow discrimination? If a company says it won’t hire anyone who’s black or female or divorced or a gun owner, do you allow it or prohibit it?

How about states rights? Suppose a state wants to pass a law making it illegal to smoke marijuana or cigarettes or to own a gun or a porno video? Do you allow the states to pass laws restricting what individuals can do?

What’s your position on social security?

5

We are not too interested in foreign affairs. We once dated a Mexican girl, and that was nice. We don’t like foreign leaders who have a lot of foreign ideas. We really don’t like the ones who wear uniforms. We are not in favor of being to involved with them by either supporting them or overthrowing them.

Darn shame that sometimes these yahoos seem to force themselves onto our radar screens.

We don’t want anyone polluting our streams, it ruins the fishing. Same for our air. Why should some rich company be able to screw up my breathing? Conservatives do not pollute because it is impolite to our neighbors and besides our mothers taught us not to litter.

We do not like poverty. It is hard to have a good time if you are poor. We think Big Government programs were worth a try, and so we gave The War on Poverty the good college try. We are ready to try something else now.

We believe charity helps both those who give it and (to a lesser extent) those who have to take it.

Conservatives think anyone who judges a person by the color of his skin in a peawit. We reject racism. We reject anti-Sematism.

We think people who use the Social Security taxes of some teenager to pay their green fees are selfish slobs.

6

Conservatives believe it is time to go to work. We believe we will be back in about six our eight hours. We believe we should stop using the Third Person when referring to ourselves. It makes people think we have a tapeworm.

7

You’ve got two conservative parties already. Who needs another?

8

Certainly a conservative party, if one means a party for prudent change and a cautious approach to progress. Nothing wrong with that.

Two objectionable streaks common to most, but thankfully not all, conservative species. One is an authoritarian tendency and a bias towards military force, this kind of conservative loves police, soldiers, and guns. Somtimes just guns.

They loathe crime and criminals more than they hate cancer. They know that the brutality, rape etc. endemic to prisons are a direct result of lenient coddling by liberal judges. They sternly support the right of police to investigate, interrogate, inter, and internal hemorrage other people. They are authoritarians who claim to favor small government, without a hint of irony.

Their other objectionable trait is the tendency to regard human rights as being primarily property rights embroidered with a few minor embellishments than can be temporarily or permanently set aside, should they conflict with the Prime Directive. Predominantly, but not exclusively, Christian they regard with grave suspicion anyone who might threaten to give practical effect to the Sermon on the Mount. Insists that Mallard Fillmore is funny.

9

Rules in most democrats too.

Did you know that the Sermon on the Mount has much to say about the authority of the law?

10

Conservatives are notoriously resistant to self-expression.

They place more of an emphasis on hard work and less on imagination and tolerance.

Conservatives seem to be more religious, yet do not follow Christian teachings such as ‘respect all people’ and ‘forgive others’.

What? My impression was that US conservatives were overwhelmingly white and Christian. And they surely would be less likely to eat ethnic foods such as bagels and hommus.

Whatareya?..Pass me the brush to tar ya. - TISM

11

Police? They creep Conservatives out. Have you noticed how young policemen are getting? What’s with those black uniforms and mirrored sunglasses? Are they trying to upset people?

The War on Drugs also bothers Conservatives. We like the occasional good time and do not see why people with guns ought to be too concerned about that. The Police, the War on Drugs and the Death Penalties are just examples of failed government programs.

Sure we eat ribs, and bagels and hummus. We are Conservatives. We are not Rednecks.

12

Well I don’t know if anyone would agree you were describing a Conservative party. Sounds Fiscally Conservative however. Pretty close to my beliefs.

BTW: if we legalized {most?} drugs, we would greatly reduce the young men in jail and therefore the overcrowding. It would relieve pressure on the court system. Allow Police to spend more time on violent crimes and theft. So you can maintain a strong anti-crime stance without throwing more people in jail.

Jim

13

So… Conservatives are unimaginative, intolerant, unforgiving, and racist.

Is that about it? You left out baby eating.

14

Conservatives like baby back ribs. If enjoying an adult beverage we will even break out in the Baby Back Ribs Song. Until our spouses hush us.

15

You know, I enjoy a good political discussion as much as the next guy, but maybe we should discard the labels “conservative”, “liberal”, “left” and “right” for the moment. The OP went to a lot of trouble to clarify his stance on specific issues. I can agree on some points without being “conservative” and disagree on others without being “liberal”. Terms like that are devalued currency.

16

You are absolutely correct. Paul made it obvious he wasn’t the boogey man described by antechinus. This did not stop antechinus from painting with a broad brush anyway.
I would not consider myself a “conservative” or “liberal”. I usually label myself as a “moderate republican”, but even this is being devalued. I am now saying a “green republican”. I am fairly liberal or libertarian on social issues but side with the so-called conservatives on crime and military and spending. I find I vote mote Dem than Rep now.

17

Well, I see a lot of statements about the way Conservatives feel about things. It tells me little about what policies a Conservative Party Government would institute.

So, would a Conservative government abolish the civil police force and leave citizens to engage in self-help to remedy transgressions of the law or public order. Or would there be a penal code? Would standards of behaviour be left for individuals with guns to enforce according to their personal views?

So would a Conservative government abolish laws regulating the use and trafficking in of such substances? Would a Conservative government abolish the death penalty?

Hm. So, would a Conservative government puruse isolationist policies? Would a Conservative government withdraw American military personnel from foreign countries? Would a Conservative government withdraw American diplomatic personnel from foreign countries? Would a Conservative government cease assisting American businesses in pursuing their commercial interests with regard to other governments (and abolish the Department of Commerce)?

So would a Conservative government keep environmental, conservation, and land use regulations and agencies in place or would it trust that everyone is a good conservative and be polite enough to avoid doing such things?

And that is that something new? Would a Conservative government like to try removing all aid and agencies relating to ameliorating the effects of poverty? Would a Conservative government get out of the business of helping people in need and let individuals choose to improve themselves by being charitable?

How exactly do you reject it? Do you enforce current anti-discrimination law? Do you strengthen it? What?

So would a Conservative prohibit those accepting Social Security payments from playing golf? Or what, exactly?

Conservatives, it seems, like to say a lot of warm-and-cuddly sounding things. Is there anything else in the party platform?

18

Terrifying, blood-thirsty things.

19

It would be interesting to see how the resulting tensions would play out between the three parties.

It would keep the Democrats on their toes as far as taking the personal-liberties vote for granted, which would be really nice. I’m not sure the Dems would even survive going up against a strongly pro-personal-liberties party with a coherent economic stance, although if they would coalesce around some kind of economic vision they might, and this might be the provocation that gets them to do so. Perhaps a commitment to a social-welfare safety-net (which they conservatives would not exhibit) but restricted by a commitment to fiscal responsibility?

The Republicans would be up against it on fiscal conservatism / fiscal responsibility — abandon all claims or get your act together in a hurry. If they’re going to remain neoconservatively interventionist, the military costs have got to be offset by cuts in spending elsewhere or by increases in revenue from somewhere unless they would opt to claim “balancing the budget isn’t important and we don’t care”. Which they might do, figuring they keep the voters who support [del]imperialist[/del] umm, the proactive spread of American political compatibility and the ones who strongly support a Christian-centric [del]authoritarian theocracy[/del] moral position and are going to lose the ones who care more about curtailing federal spending and bureaucratic bloat to the new conservative party anyhow.

The Democrats would lose many pro-gun-ownership folks who are pro-abortion rights and would have a tough time holding on to the first-amendment voters who think the New Deal package of social benefits was a big welfare-state mistake. The far left / leftover neomarxist folks might gain influence and pull the economic policy leftwards.

A lot of disaffected independent voters who either sit on their hands on election day or hold their noses and vote, unpredictably, for the lesser of two evils, would probably flock to the new party.

Sure would be interesting to see :slight_smile:

20

What does this mean, exactly? Will a Conservative party avoid using the national flag and patriotic messages in its campaigns? (I’m not sure I know what “Nativism” means.)

So would a Conservative party bar the display of explicitly Christian messages by officials acting in their official capacity? Will explicitly Christian messages be barred from government-sponsored events, like school football games? (Will there be any tax-supported schools?)

So would a Conservative government support same-sex marriage, adoption, inheritance rights, insurance rights, other family rights? What about polygamy? Would marriage be recognised by the government at all?

So would you ban them, tax them, regulate them, what?

So, would a Conservative government print more money?

So would such things be mandatory under Conservative policy?

Mm-hm, and what would the law under a Conservative government say about it, if anything?

I think Ron Reagan has made clear his feelings about George W. Bush. :smiley: