Incidentally, slavery in Guam was declared over by 1900 (!) what do the former slave descendants there think about Juneteenth?
That meeting was in 2017 BTW.
There are no black members of Congress? Black people did not have input into making Juneteenth a holiday?
The ceremony, which took place in the East Room, included some 80 members of Congress – including members of the Congressional Black Caucus, local elected officials, community leaders and activists. The President specifically noted that Opal Lee, the activist who campaigned to establish Juneteenth as a federal holiday, was in attendance.
Several members of the Congressional Black Caucus went to the floor Wednesday to speak in favor of the bill. Rep. Bonnie Watson Coleman, D-N.J., said she viewed Juneteenth as a commemoration rather than a celebration because it represented something that was delayed in happening.
“It also reminds me of what we don’t have today,” she said. “And that is full access to justice, freedom and equality. All these are often in short supply as it relates to the Black community.”…Rep. Brenda Lawrence, D-Mich., replied, “I want to say to my white colleagues on the other side: Getting your independence from being enslaved in a country is different from a country getting independence to rule themselves.”
She added, “We have a responsibility to teach every generation of Black and white Americans the pride of a people who have survived, endured and succeeded in these United States of America despite slavery.”
It actually hasn’t been done. Someone posted an article that said “it marks the end of slavery” as if it fixes a date to the end of slavery. It doesn’t, and nobody’s suggesting it does. I can’t know for sure which article you mean, because strangely neither you or UltraVires seem to want to point to it.
To “mark an event” also doesn’t mean to fix its place in the time/space continuum. December 25th marks the date of Jesus’s birth. July 4th marks the signing of the Declaration. Most people know those aren’t the actual day those things happened. And yes, some people don’t know. Who cares ? It’s not important because that isn’t what holidays are for.
The complaining about Juneteenth is driven overwhelming by conservative white people.
If another date has been chosen, there’s be complaining for a different reason (ironically it would likely be that liberals were ignoring the already in place Juneteenth celebration).
This thread was started by HughGoply. And he does not come across as a conservative.
But I think you would agree that picking a fake date is worse than picking a random one.
For example, if I want to have “West Virginia Redneck Freedom Day” and I just throw a date out there and pick August 15th for that, then that is fine…no problem. It isn’t tied to anything.
But if I pick July 13th, for example, on a mistaken belief that someone redneck-ingly did something on that day, and found out by further research that he did it on a different day, then it is fair to point out that this isn’t the right goddamn day to celebrate it.
White people should not have an opinion?
Not sure if I’m a conservative. My biggest political belief is that Miami Vice is one of the best movies of the 2000s.
I am a white man, though.
I don’t believe you understand what he’s doing.
It’s not a fake date though. On June 19th 1865, Major General Gordon Granger read General Order #3, informing enslaved Texans that they were free. That’s a historical fact.
It’s also a historical fact that this very real event was adopted by the freed people and used as the symbolic date of the end of slavery, and has been a tradition for over 150 years.
The end of slavery was a phenomenon that spanned for a number of years and was marked by several different turning points. For holiday purposes, any point is as good as any other. In fact there’s no real value in saying “this day is the proper celebration and not that other day.” From a historical perspective, all we need to know is what events happened and what they meant.
It’s entirely appropriate that we honor the end of slavery by honoring the traditional celebration of people most harmed by it.
It’s entirely inappropriate and gross for white people who never celebrate the end of slavery at all, to come in here at the last minute telling everyone else “actually you’re doing it wrong.” Nobody cares. If you want to mount a crusade against incorrectly scheduled holidays, go try to mess with whitepeople holidays like Independence day or Christmas. You’re not getting your hooks into Juneteenth.
Agreed as far as the facts. Do we let Delaware off the hook? Kentucky? Or other states because they did it years before?
Why are we talking Dec 18th and not Dec 6th when ratification by 3/4 of the states was finalized? Remember that amendments
shall be valid to all intents and purposes, as part of this Constitution, when ratified by the legislatures of three fourths of the several states, or by conventions in three fourths thereof,
independent of when it is proclaimed. So December 6, 1865 is when slavery ended in the United States.
Please explain what you mean by “letting them off the hook” and why you think it’s relevant.
As has been said, when you celebrate June 19, 1865 as the day when slavery ended, you (the general you) are ignoring the fact that slaves were still enslaved in Delaware and Kentucky until December. June 19 was only the day that slaves were freed in Texas, not nationally.
It’s a pretty simple question. On which date do you feel slavery was ended in the United States? June 19, 1865 or December 18, 1865?
What is the most appropriate date to celebrate the end of slavery in the United States? The anniversary of the day when slavery was ended in Texas or the anniversary of the day when slavery was ended in the United States?
Nobody’s celebrating June 19th 1865 as the day slavery ended. This is a strawman that you’re hugging to death, pointing to nonexistent cites, clutching pearls over widespread confusion that as yet you’ve been unwilling or unable to demonstrate.
Juneteenth is a day when we observe the end of slavery, a prolonged series of events that didn’t happen on any particular day. We choose to celebrate it on the longest-running tradition that exists for that purpose. That’s what holidays are.
Horseshit. It was cited above many times how the media is saying it and how people think about it. It is misleading and false.
My understanding is that a law doesn’t officially go into effect until it has been certified. For the 13th Amendment, that occurred on December 18.
As I’ve stated before, the “end of slavery” wasn’t a specific date but a prolonged series of events. There are arguments to be made for all of the following:
- January 1st, 1863, the beginning of the end.
- April 9th, 1865, when the fate of the Confederacy was sealed
- June 19, 1865, the longest running celebration of emancipation of the country, based on events in Texas
- March 18th, 1976, when the last state ratified the 13th Amendment.
Any of those dates could be a suitable occasion for commemorating the end of slavery. There are good arguments for all of them. There are good arguments for other dates as well. I happen to favor the one that’s been celebrated the longest, by the people most affected by slavery. It’s the most appropriate thing to do.
I can’t help but wonder why you and other folks are expending so much firepower on telling Black people that they’re getting slavery wrong, when you could be telling Americans that they’re doing Independence Day wrong, or that Christians are celebrating Christmas on the wrong day. What is it about this specific holiday that drives your urge to make it conform to your sensibilities?
If you’re so certain, show me an example and we’ll talk about it. I’ve asked 3 times, and you’ve dodged, because you know full well that the cites don’t say what you claim they do.