"America Works" : It's been tried. Could it be made to work?

Note : while I’ll be discussing a significant plot element in Season 3 of House of Cards, I will refrain from spoiling anything related to the main plotline. Please do the same.

In Season 3 of “House of Cards”, Kevin Spacey as president has come up with a piece of legislation intended to fix America. It’s a massive, 500 billion dollar government program meant to provide every unemployed person in all of America a job.

Now, there’s some…issues with this.

First of all, the price for labor in the USA at all comes with it the implicit assumption that if you don’t take a given employer’s offer, you may spend more time unemployed. Similarly, once you have a job, employers can threaten to fire you if you don’t work harder. If you are guaranteed a job, even if it is a much worse job working for the government, that threat doesn’t apply.

I cannot even imagine the effect it would have on the labor market as a result because it’s too complicated.

Another problem occurs in that it results in the government propping up unprofitable businesses. For example, a character in the show received a job as a dishwasher. The restaurant manager said “well, it’s been nice to have the extra help, but without further funding, I’m going to have to fire one of you…”

If the restaurant doesn’t bring in enough revenue to pay all the dishwashers without government help, maybe what it is doing as a business is not viable. This, notable, is an argument you could level at walmart. If they aren’t paying their employees enough to stay alive without government help, maybe they shouldn’t get that government help and should be forced to raise their prices and be a viable business.

With all that said, I do feel the government could do a lot to clean up the employment game. Instead of having job seekers have to apply at each and every employer, filling out a nonstandard form each time, and essentially wasting weeks of their lives - someone with poor prospects may have to do this for months to years and still won’t have a job.

Instead, the government (or a government mandated central firm) needs to maintain a central clearing house.

All job seekers should be able to fill out a standardized, computer searchable form. Any employers who have additional questions should be able to send them to a job seeker, and the job seeker’s answers to those questions should become part of the profile searchable by other employers.

Let’s say the job seeker reports they have a bachelor’s in Petroleum Pumping and 2 years experience working for Petroleum Pumps LTD. An employer creates a “secondary” questionnaire, and they autosend that questionaire to any job seeker who has a bachelor’s in petroleum pumping. The questionnaire asks if they have any experience in AR510 model pumps. If the seeker clicks “yes”, it automatically answers the identical question in secondary questionnaires sent by other employers.

Done correctly, a job seeker merely spends a few hours giving all the necessary information, and then every employer in the United States who could possibly offer them a job has a chance to make an offer.

We could even streamline the interview process by having third parties interview people, with the interview results available to all employers.

This means we won’t be able to blame the unemployed if they don’t get a job. If no one in the entire USA is interested in a person with a particular set of skills, the jobs must not exist. Similarly, it means that with a few clicks, implicitly, any job seeker has applied for every job that exists inside the USA that they could possibly fill.

The government could also stop a lot of predatory practices this way, as they would have accurate statistics on everything. It would be much easier to detect discrimination when you have access to the actual resumes of everyone who applied to every firm.

We could also eliminate the need for questionnaires in many cases. Employers who have active employees would be required to submit reports that describe what an employee did for them, what skills were required, etc. So the job market would not be a bullshitting contest of people with inflated resumes, at least not to the degree it is now, because people’s actual experiences and skills would be reported by third parties and part of the database.

I thought of this with my own job search last year. I had a set of skills that on paper meant I should have gotten a job immediately. Yet, I found it surprisingly hard to actually find a firm that I had the prerequisites for. I had to waste enormous amounts of time wading through postings, and submitting applications on non-standard website forms. Naturally, it was a total waste of time - I never got a single callback. I eventually got a job because I knew somebody that knew somebody.

I’m not seeing a question here. Let’s move this over to Great Debates.

Colibri
General Questions Moderator

Uhm, I read that 4th paragraph several times, and I can’t figure out what it means. Especially the first sentence.

And a standardized form for al jobs? Let’s see… McDonalds cashier or Director of International Sales or Mobile Phone App developer. Not seeing a lot in common in terms of what you’d find on their employment applications.

Presumably, present job-finding systems would still exist, which are most likely adequate for the highest levels (your “Directors of International Sales”). I see no reason why such a system couldn’t have standardized forms that would be flexible enough for both cashiers and app developers – presumably, they would both click “N/A” on or just ignore certain pages of the generic applications (e.g. “retail experience click here, engineering experience click here, programming experience click here”, etc.).

Wouldn’t employers try to game the system by hiring as many people as possible, even unnecessary people, to boost productivity in a wasteful way, if the government is footing the salary bill?

Folks may still blame the unemployed if it’s a case of "they told me ‘No Job Exists For My Set Of Skills’ – after I helpfully described my set of skills as ‘None’.

I was envisioning something like Monster.com or jobfinder and thinking ‘well, we already have that, why do we need the government to reinvent the wheel again?’.

Not sure what the OP was getting at in the 4th paragraph either except perhaps that s/he wants to remove the ability for employers to fire people so people don’t have to worry about getting fired(?).

I didn’t see the series the OP is referring to, but it reminds me of the movie Dave where the President can simply wave his or her magic fiat wand and simply give everyone in America that wants a job a job, and that it’s simply evil politicians (probably Republicans) who are getting in the way of this…or something.

I don’t think you’d ever get around people having to apply regardless of whether you standardized. You could certainly have everyone post their resume in a standard, electronic and searchable format, but then you are going to get people who complain that they don’t have access to the internet or computers and that this is an unfair bias. So, then what you will have to do is give them the ability to either access an internet capable kiosk or system where they can fill out the form or allow for them to fill it out on paper and submit it for processing (plus, you will need to have a whole structure for folks with disabilities to be able to do all of this as well). Since it will all be standardized and run by the government, it’s going to cost the world to do this and you will have to build in a lot of sorting features so that employers can actually wade through the mountain of data to find what they need in their own local area. This SHOULD be no problem, but based on the issues the government had with their health care web site I’d guess it will have a rather rocky start…and if you are going to mandate that businesses MUST use this, then I can foresee a lot of issues and pain (plus unreal costs).

It just doesn’t seem feasible or even necessary, since we already have the ability to search for jobs and post your skills and resume online for companies to search and find possible employees. I don’t think streamlining (even if we were actually going to streamline, which I doubt) the application process will really make much difference in the employment/unemployment figures or in helping people find jobs better than they can today with the myriad tools available to search for jobs and for employers to search for employees.

There’s no public organization in charge of linking unemployed people and employers, in the USA? Or is it that it exists but doesn’t work the way you describe?

Does such a thing exists in France? How does is it work?

There used to be a national employment agency, but it was merged in 2009 into a combined entity,Pôle Emploi

But it is a very typical model that is found in all the francophone countries. I do not think anything in the history of these agencies says these models are very effective in solving problems of unemployment.

If it means never having to write another cover letter, sign me up.

Pretty much every state’s unemployment office has a job bank and provides resume help and meetings with employment counselors, as well as making you prove you’re actively looking for work while getting unemployment. So that does exist in the US.

Of course. Given the massive success of healthcare.gov, who wouldn’t want the federal government to take on an even larger internet project, dominating an even more critical area of our lives, and giving it access to even more of our personal information?

??
I am no fan of the public employment agencies, they do not seem to be very transforming, but you are actually getting paranoid about ‘personal information’ as an objection?

Every western democracy has these agencies…

Truly strange

This was kind of my reaction too: “We already have that, it’s called LinkedIn”. The problem being it doesn’t really work if you don’t have a skillset that’s particularly in demand. To really reduce unemployment substantially, it seems like we’d need to improve job training and education programs to better align the skills of the workforce with the needs of employers… but this is easier said than done.

Well it’s sort of like that except in House of Cards the politician who’s trying to eliminate unemployment is actually the evil one… It’s not really about fixing the country, it’s about establishing his legacy at all costs.

As mentioned, it has been merged with the administration in charge of paying unemployment benefits some years ago. The wikipedia article in English isn’t very informative.

And I haven’t been unemployed for the last 28 years, so my knowledge of its current working is limited. Basically, all unemployed people register with it, providing informations about their employment history/job search. There’s a (n overworked) case worker following them, and providing also advices, training, etc… Employers send in their employment offers, and the agency work is to put both in contact, quite simply.

Both employers and unemployed people complain a lot about its (lack of) ability to find the workers/work they need, but it still does an important job. You’re still going to chase employment offers on the internet and such, to send resume, etc… but it’s still pretty convenient, if you’re searching for a gizmo maker, to be able to resort to an agency that knows about all the unemployed gizmo makers in the area, and in the reverse sense, there are certainly a significant number of job offers that are made through it.

I sort of assumed something similar existed in all countries, and just realized when I read the thread that I never saw such a thing mentioned on this board wrt American unemployed dopers (while it would very often be on a French board).

That’ pretty much what happen in the aforementioned “pole emploi” over here. I’m not sure why you assume the concept is so difficult to put into place and that it would be rejected by unemployed people.

In our case, it happens to be mandatory (because they also ask for evidences that you’re actually seeking a job and actually available to pay the unemployment benefits), but it would be ridiculous not to register with such an agency when it exists and you’re unemployed. Even moreso if you have particular issues (clueless about how searching for a job, not having a computer, etc…).

[QUOTE=clairobscur]
I’m not sure why you assume the concept is so difficult to put into place and that it would be rejected by unemployed people.
[/QUOTE]

I didn’t say it would be rejected by unemployed people, I said I didn’t think it would really help with unemployment figures. IIRC, you are from France…how’s it helping out there? What’s your current unemployment rate? What’s the 10 year unemployment trend in France? What’s the trend since this system was adopted? Any difference (I really don’t know, it’s a serious question)?

As for difficult to implement, again, I point at the recent health care web site as an example. It SHOULDN’T be difficult to implement, especially since, as I noted, there are already companies doing this on the internet…but I think that in reality it would be very difficult to do and I seriously doubt it could be done in the way the OP was asking. The fact that you guys have it really is meaningless…recall, you also have UHC and we don’t, nor are we likely to get it any time soon. The political, social and economic realities in France are not 1 for 1 equal in the US, and vice versa. The US isn’t Europe, and the people in the US aren’t European-esque…even our left leaning folks aren’t really like Europeans (nor is our right wing the same as yours, etc etc).

This. To my knowledge, every state also has a vocational rehabilitation agency to help those that need retraining due to disability, structural changes in employment, and other factors. There are several non-profits such as Goodwill that also provide similar services.

While ‘voc rehab’ and non-profits may have a limited mandate, the unemployment offices do not as far as I know. You have to qualify for unemployment benefits, but the technical assistance (how do I write a resume, or sign up for monster.com, help with mock interviews) are available to anyone who asks, often through group workshops, online modules, pamphlets, etc. The only difference I can see with what the OP proposes, it that participation would be mandatory. I have no problem with that as long as third party firms such as Monster.com or Idealist.org can continue to participate also.

I would not mind seeing an expansion of AmeriCorps to include anyone who is interested, and provide a modest wage like the CCC (Civilian Conservation Corps) and be the employer of last resort instead of Walmart.

If employers have to rely on the fear of the unemployment to find and keep workers, well… I prefer those firms that are more concerned with providing a environment that people want to come to work to, and the employers are concerned they will lose their best workers if they cannot meet industry norms. Most professional workers have had that luxury for some time. It does not seem outrageous that non-professional employees would want the same level of respect - ‘all men (and women) are equal’ and all that.

The nature of the social contract regarding employment is changing for a variety of reasons, but primarily for cultural reasons. Just as it banned slavery and child labor, if employers cannot provide a living wage and a respectful work environment, then they perhaps should no longer be employers. Yet they seem to have adjusted well enough losing the two labor pools above, so I think they will be able to adjust again. Seattle should give us some interesting data points in a few years.

As far as streamlining the interview process, I do not think it would be possible. A good interview is a two-way process, as much for the interviewee to decide if he wants to work for the firm. In a similar vein, I have always thought that employers should have to provide a data sheet to prospective employees though - quid pro quo. You want my information, let me see yours - i.e. turnover rates, sales growth (or decline), levels of management, average compensation, etc. Are you even worth applying to?