Why is it so hard to get a federal job?

Factual Questions
1

Looking at USAJOBS, there are thousands upon thousands of them. The FedGov is the largest employer. So why is it that everyone I know says it is virtually impossible to get hired? No matter how many resumes you send, it seems to go into a black hole.

I know that jobs are limited in the FedGov because so many people stay once hired, but even so, you would think that for the open vacancies, you would get a better response.

So is the system of federal hiring ‘rigged’? Does it not actually go to the public, but instead, they give the jobs out to their buddies already in the federal service?

Or is it fair but just mind-boggingly competitive?

2

Are these people actually taking the Civil Service Test or are they just sending in resumes?

3

For many, if not most, federal positions, the common form of a resume as used in the private sector is not sufficient. Such resumes probably get summarily round-filed upon receipt.

The main differences between goverment resume format and the type commonly used in the private sector is that the government loves length. Lots and lots of glorious length. That “keep a resume at one page” rule is right out the window.

You have to go back a lot further in time (I want to say 15 years?) than you think you have to, and you have to give detail about every job. Time spent waiting tables is to be as fully fleshed out as time spent as CEO of Exxon (I exaggerate, but little).

You have to include a lot of minutiae about your old jobs, too – supervisor’s full name and phone number (it helps to look up an old supervisor if they’ve moved out of town or something … the feds really want to speak to them), old salary ranges (starting and ending), exact address of where you used to work, etc. On conventional resumes, you can either skip much of that, or gloss over it (e.g. just give the city of a given past employer instead of a full address).

On top of that, you have to have your name, SSN, and job position number on the top of each page of your resume. If you don’t use the automatic header tool in a word-processing program and try to do this manually, it’s easy to miss a page and have your resume summarily rejected.

I’m not sure how forthcoming USAJobs.gov is about the ticky-tack resume requirements or about the detailed narrative component that is meant to accompany the resume (NOT a cover letter). The narrative component is, internally, the “Knowledge, Skills, and Abilities” section, or “KSAs”. When these are asked for, I’m not sure if the job site gives tips that explain exactly what the hirers are looking for. The KSAs, also, are a very just-so thing that can get an applicant summarily rejected. Once you are in federal employ, there are actually classes offered on how to properly write KSAs – AFAIK, these classes aren’t offered publicly (unless a third party offers them somewhere).

4

I do not know but my sense is there is a real streak of cronyism running through all levels of government.

While not exactly on the same plane but similar I once knew someone who was trying to become a fireman. He did everything he could towards that goal. Appropriate schooling, passing whatever tests were required and ranked highly based on all that. Nevertheless he said it was near impossible to get a job as a fireman without someone on the inside pulling for you. The way he told it the jobs were kept tightly within a small community of people and often family. Some Joe just walking in off the street to get one of those jobs was exceptionally difficult.

5

I forgot to add: having a friend or relative who’s been through the application and hiring process helps a ton. They can read over your submissions and make sure it’s all up to snuff … especially all that ticky-tack detail that the private sector doesn’t care about.

6

It depends on the type of job. Some jobs are very specialized and those are probably filled by recruiters. Some are so general that there is a huge amount of competition - IT Specialist for example. Anybody that has every taken a computer course can send in a resume full of all the buzzwords.

The process is equally frustrating from the inside, I assure you. If you could find someone with federal government HR experience to help you, then you’re home free. Apparently it’s pretty easy to get a job or move around within the system if you know how.

7

I’ve applied for Federal jobs twice while not already employed by the government, once in the mid-1970s and once in the late 1990s. Got offered jobs both times.

8

I graduated with a BA in Political Science, took the Civil Service Exam, and got the first Federal job I applied for (I was with the Patent and Trademark Office when it was in the Hoover Building).

9

Well, how about that? USAJobs.com does, in fact, offer resume and KSA writing tips on its website.

It’s semi-buried, though … you have to scroll way down on the index page. It’s pretty well separated from the Job Search section, which is probably where 99% of site visitors spend their time.

Keep in mind, SE, that the part of your post I quoted is really just the sum of a few anecdotes. It’s not like 10,000 people you know had a hard time getting hired, and that you were able to independently verify that they did all their resumes/KSAs properly every time, and possessed the necessary qualifications every time.

10

In addition to the things already pointed out (about how writing a resume for a Fed job differs from a resume from a public-sector job, etc), Jobs with the Feds are highly coveted. You wouldn’t necessarily think so, because the Feds don’t pay as well as private industry. But once you get in and hold your position for a year, it’s practically impossible to get fired, you’d almost have to shoot the POTUS’s dog or something. So a Fed job is about as secure as a job can get.

If you’re working for IBM, and another company offers you a better compensation package, you’re likely to leave IBM. But if you’re in a Fed position and IBM offers you a job with better pay, you’d hesitate to leave the security (and bennies!) of a Fed job for a private sector one.

In addition to all of this, you have to pass a security clearance to do almost anything for the Feds these days. I’d bet it would be surprising to find out how many people wouldn’t pass the security check.

Plus, it’s easier to get a Fed job once you’ve had a Fed job. Now, this may leave you scratching your head, but a lot of college kids will take drudge jobs for the Feds that pay next to nothing (you could probably make more working at McD’s), just so they can get a foot in the door. The Feds try to hire from within before they open a position to the public.

That’s only cuz you’re a huge ol’ math geek, and there’s a shortage of those types! :stuck_out_tongue:

11

Yes. Aggresively. Hence the KSA writing and such offered internally.

12

Let me add to this valuable information two points:

A. First there is Veterans preference going on. When a selecting Official in a Civilian Agency gets a “cert” or the list he/she may hire from it usually contains 3-10 names who have been determined as eligible for the position. This has been done through the Agency’s OHR process - all determined to be minimally qualified have been assigned numerical scores and only the top few ever make it to the Selecting Official. IOW the Selecting Officials don’t see all the applications. Veterans, Disabled Veterans and people eligible under other Veteran’s programs get some point bonus - lets say 10 points.

This means that in an All Sources advertisement that 100 people apply for say 5 people score 95-100 and 3 vetererans get 94-93’s, and a 10 point boost and the Agency’s OHR only sends 3 Names on the cert … in this case then only these 3 Vets are going to make it to the Selecting Official for hiring. Some portion of Federal agencies game play this - but with Iraq I believe anecdotally that this is being taken more seriously.

B. As others have noted not every job on USAJobs is open to All Sources : Some are for Status Candidates (Employees who have 3 or more years of Federal Service), & some are All Sources AND Merit Promotion - in these cases two different certs will be sent to the Selecting Official - one from all Sources (as listed above) and one from people deemed eligible for Promotion or a lateral move into this position from another Government Position.

So if you see 5,000 jobs on USAJobs not everyone can apply for every one & only the most qualified are ever going to make it to a Selecting Official.

CAVEAT: This is meant, in general to describe the process at a 30,000 foot level what civilian agencies use in the hiring process this is not meant as a one size fits all, absolutely no exceptions description of all federal Agencies

13

Being a vet does not get you veteran’s preference automatically. You have to be a qualified vet to get veteran’s preference. In other words, you had to have been active military at a time when when Congress deemed it being important.

Source: http://www.opm.gov/veterans/html/vetsinfo.asp#Word

I work with many vets who cannot claim veteran’s preference because their time of active duty is outside of what Congress deemed as eligible .

14

I knew someone who didn’t pass. We were working as contractors at the Pentagon, and we both had “Temp” badges while we waited for our final clearance to come through. He found out that his application for clearance had been denied, based on his arrest record. (He told me it was all minor stuff, but who knows?) Eventually, his employer let him go because he was of no use to them without at least a secret clearance.

22KE

15

scrambledeggs writes:

> Looking at USAJOBS, there are thousands upon thousands of them. The FedGov
> is the largest employer. So why is it that everyone I know says it is virtually
> impossible to get hired? No matter how many resumes you send, it seems to go
> into a black hole.
>
> I know that jobs are limited in the FedGov because so many people stay once
> hired, but even so, you would think that for the open vacancies, you would get
> a better response.
>
> So is the system of federal hiring ‘rigged’? Does it not actually go to the public,
> but instead, they give the jobs out to their buddies already in the federal
> service?
>
> Or is it fair but just mind-boggingly competitive?

First of all, how many people do you know who have applied for a federal job? I would like to know about your sample size. Look, I know that you apparently very seldom return to a thread once you start it, but just for once do so. Tell us how many people you know who have applied for a federal job.

The jobs are certainly not rigged. The comparison with local fire departments that Whack-a-Mole makes is not valid. In some local governments everybody knows who the applicants are and decisions are made on a rather haphazard basis, so it’s entirely possible that there is some tendency to hire only people they already know. In the federal government the hiring standards are at least very objective, if not necessarily correct. (I’m not talking here about presidential appointees, where the person applied is whoever the President wants in that job as long as he gets Senate approval. Those are a tiny proportion of federal jobs. Most federal employees never even meet a presidential appointee during their career.)

For many positions the competitive is quite selective. Of course, for other jobs they aren’t particularly selective, but they are low-level jobs like janitors. I presume that the people you know didn’t apply for such jobs. The people who apply for such low-level jobs are local people for the most part.

16

I believe to the bottom of my soul that the Federal Government spends God knows how much money paying people to review every job application with the sole purpose of searching out petty errors and rejecting the applicant out of hand. As an example, a friend who was already a Federal employee with a GS-8 grade applied for a job that would have meant an upgrade in job level, more money, and increased managerial opportunity. The job description fit her to a T; it might have been written with her in mind.
On a four page application, she omitted to fill in one single square that dealt with her typing speed. Application was rejected out of hand with no consideration of her other qualifications, nor was she allowed to resubmit the application. To make it worse, the job description did not mention typing as one of the requirements. I’ve known quite a few others applicants with similar tales to tell.

17

I’m not sure about the Feds, but a lot of state governments advertise every job position in the government without regard to which jobs have openings at the time.

You might see a job for Executive Park Ranger at XYZ State Park, but they already have an Executive Park Ranger and he plans to work there for thirty more years, but that law or policy requires them to always advertise the position so that someone who desires can be considered…

18

Is there some process where you can challenge not getting the federal job? An appeals to OPM where the authority has to justify the reasons why?

I heard that there was, but couldn’t find any reference to it.

19

The Feds have a completely different application process, one that sometimes takes a year. bordelond gives some excelent advice here.

And, yes, many of the jobs are “pre-selected”, generally for a favoured minion, or someone who has Networked in. This is not greatly different that hiring in at a big company. Basicly a lot of jobs are listed only to follow legal requirements.

A good rule of thumb for any Gov’t job is that: if there’s only one position, you are not going to get it unless you are networked in. Mass hire- sure. Right now the IRS is doing a mass hire, for example.

20

If USPS is close enough to fall into the “Feds” classification, I’m here to tell you that the time period for my appoinment to the service lasted seven years. At least five of them were from the time I submitted my appication to the day I was asked to come in for an interview.

Then another year after that before I was asked to come in for a drug screening.