When they murdered an American because of the way their people were treated in an American prison where they wear orange jumpsuits.
Right.
I saw the pics they’ve let us see.
Not one orange jump suit to be seen.
They were mostly nude.
Whats to address?? Its a conspiricy theory…its immune to logic. You are right though, for once you didn’t mention Bushco. DOesn’t mean you didn’t have it in mind of course. I’m sure you’ll figure a way to work it in.
I’ll be honest…I don’t even UNDERSTAND your ridiculous theory. Maybe you could explain it better?
Whats your point? You saying the guy was under cover, not really there, what? He was looking to help out from what I read because he was a communications/telcom specialist and there is a lot of work there for that rebuilding infrastructure.
Again, whats your point? Do you suspect him of being there for other, covert reasons or something? Do you have any indication that his situation is unusual, that contractors with their own company CAN’T go to Iraq to look for work?
Yes? And what does this mean to you? Means nothing to me at all.
Well, I haven’t watched the video, and have no intention of watching it either. However, from what I heard, he screamed a lot when he finally figured out what was happening. As to the blood part, my understanding is there was plenty, but again I didn’t watch it. I assume your point is that it was staged, correct? To what purpose? Just to piss us off?
Again, I didn’t see the tape so can’t talk first hand. But again, from reading what others said who DID watch it, I don’t think he knew what was coming…i.e. he didn’t know they were going to kill him, and they surprised him when they did kill him.
WTF does this have to do with anything? Whats your point here, again?
Ok, I’ve humored you by going through your ‘points’. Maybe you could flesh out your theory somemore? I’m dieing to find out how this goes from here.
-XT
The orange jumpsuit was obviously to make the connection to the recent prison scandal.
Now on that: there is no evidence, other than what Zarqawi says in the video, that this murder was in any way connected with the prison scandal. If Zarqawi gets his hands on an American, he’s going to kill him. The only question in his mind, I’m sure, is the manner of death.
So Berg would have gotten it regardless, and there’s no real connection between his murder and the prison scandal. It wasn’t retribution; it was just Zarqawi doing what he does. As it turned out, he found an opportunity to work the scandal into a murder he was going to commit anyway, and the thing I find disappointing is that people here in the US got so angry at the act that they immediately swallowed Zarqawi’s stated reason for the murder without remembering who we’re dealing with here.
Zarqawi isn’t Iraqi, retribution was just used as a propaganda ploy, and making the link between the prison scandal and Berg’s murder simply plays right into Zarqawi’s hands. As does the entire invasion of Iraq, really. Sooner or later we’re going to have to get a grip and realize that everything we’ve done in Iraq, including linking this act to the scandal, is like those jokers who fired missiles into that planet of death on the Fifth Element, which firing only made the planet more powerful.
Stop playing into al Qaeda’s hands.
I hate to repeat myself.
Where is the frigging blood?? You swipe someones neck with a knife and sever the jugular…you are going to have blood spraying.
Where is it?
You tell me, Reeder…you saw the clip, I didn’t. I’m chatting with a friend via IM, and SHE says there is plenty of blood.
-XT
Actually I don’t think Bushco is behind it.
There are other powers at play in Iraq you know.
If the link is to the clip of the man dieing, I’m not interested. I don’t believe such things are for public consumption and I refuse to watch it. Maybe someone else who’s seen it will comment on the lack of blood? First I’ve heard of it. As I said, I’m chatting with a friend of mine in England atm (god, must be REALLY late there) and she says there is plenty of blood and screaming and aweful sounds too boot…totally grossed her out.
-XT
Check it out, pal.
So you are debating something you won’t even watch?
Works for me.
:rolleyes:
This debate wasn’t about the clip, Reeder. If the clip is later proved false (something I highly doubt) then thats another story. If you think it WAS faked and you feel the urge, start a thread about it telling your theory and laying out your ‘facts’.
-XT
We are talking the torture suspects.
They are torturing the people in Gitmo now??
When are the Americans and British going to give up beating themselves up over a few hi-jinx with Iraqui prisoners.
From the pics I’ve seen, it looks no worse than the stunts pulled in frat houses and boarding schools anywhere.
On the other hand, the treatment catured allies receive at the hands of the obviously uncivilised Arabs include being burned, beheaded, hacked up and towed behind vehicle in public streets.
The US and UK infringements are not in the same league.
I reckon they should outsource the war to the Isrealis, then support both sides.
I don’t agree that we need to compare Abu Ghraib to all the prisons in the world. We only need to compare it to other prisons run by the US. If you take California as the standard, the perspective is that there isn’t a lot of difference between Abu Ghraib operations and US prisons.
And with a standard like the one you hold out in the last paragraph, the issue seems to be ducked. The questions to me is, given that prison guards are going to be with us, what standards of behavior should be set?
I believe that I misunderstood your post and thought you were attempting to justify the actions of US personnel. I see now that you weren’t, or it doesn’t look like you were. Sorry.
As to iskander’s question:“3) Does this put some perspective on the US’s recent actions with reguards to the prison scandal (i.e. pretty much all the details have come out, we are taking steps to punish the guilty and correct the problem, even as bad as it was, no one died or was executed publicly, etc) or no?”
That, it appears to me is an attempt to justify the guards and their bosses, and that is a bunch of baloney. And, of course, his claim that no one died seems to be false. There have been numerous news reports of deaths due to beatings. And as far as the US correcting the problem, it doesn’t look like the powers that be jumped right in and started action. Gen. Myers, if we can recall, didn’t even think the report of the Maj. Gen. sent to investigate was important enough to call for speed on Myers’ part in getting hold of it. His statement when asked was the report was 'working its way" through to him.
So far the only fast action has been the immediate calling of courts-martial for the lower ranks, and I believe they are Special and not General Courts. If that is the case then they are equivalent to Justice, or Municipal courts in civilian affairs. They can impose sentences up to 1 year and mete out such things as reduction in grade, forfeiture of pay, etc, so the cases are being teated as equivalent to misdemeanors.
I remains to be seen if the military of its own volition and without outside pressure will ever get into chain-of-command responsibility.
And if bin Laden should just happen to be captured this affair will disappear from the scene in a heartbeat. The navy has a slogan, “The Navy takes care of its own” which the Army doesn’t have, but uses in the case of the high ranking ‘members of the club’ but it has an entirely different meaning than the Navy intended. Witness the two Patton hospitalized soldier-slapping incidents in WWII. Bradley wrote a cover-your-ass letter for the file and Ike bawled Patton out something fierce and that was pretty much that. And it is clear from his book (A General’s Story) that Bradley didn’t even personally like Patton. You just have to recall that they were all part of the Long Gray Line.
Well, you’re wrong. Don’t just look at pictures, try reading some actual news stories, or better yet, Gen. Tabuga’s report on the subject.
Hmm, I see on reading the rest of AussieSilverback’s post that he’s just trying to wind some people up. It has to be that, because no one could really make such absurdly ignorant statements with a straight face, could they? Never mind.
More of the rape and murder as frat-house hijnx meme.
What frats do these guys belong to where rape and murder = hijinx?
And many moderate Middle Eastern peoples are just as upset at this action as we are. Let’s not make ourselves look like stupid redneck’s and condemn a whole race or religion for the crimes of a small minority. Some people need to show some common sense and put a lid on their emotions!
Taken from Information Clearing House Newsletter:
The a lot of ‘condemners’ in this country aren’t rednecks. I’m essentially a redneck, and I take offence to it being used as a slur.