How about creating a country where people like mswas can sit on his high horse and freely criticize without being harassed, rounded up, and tortured by jackbooted thugs?
According to this site: http://www.fas.usda.gov/food-aid.html
the US provided over 6 million metric tons of food assistance. I don’t know what % of total food assistance that is, but it’s a lot more than 0, which is the amount we are required to give.
Simply having a large amount of influence is not considered an atrocity. Especially since our troops are or were performing such imperialist missions like keeping North Korea from sweeping into South Korea, preventing the USSR from occupying Europe, and performing various peacekeeping missions around the world.
When will it be day December that you and I agree. In fact I am confortable with most of your list (and also think that you overlooked important wones)
Don’t call your oponent evil unless you are the Pope, he is the only infalible in that kind of issues.
Perhaps U.S.A contributes with 60% of food aid, but I can assure you it is not because of solidarity but has lot to do with your subsidies. At the end it brings misery to many and turn us into beggars.
Another issue, democracy was born in Athens. From that moment on it lived in the heart of human beings if not in their institutions.
I usually criticize America and I bet December is waiting for this:
Pro: American revolution (1776?) inspired spain colonies own revolution. I can still remember my history classes:
Teacher: What were the mediate causes of the May revolution?
Me (always a bright student): English invasions, french revolution, and American Revolution.
Teacher: And the inmediate causes?
Me: Well, an American ship brought the news that Seville had fallen in the hands of Napoleon and with it the Central Junta, so the revolutionaries argued that without his master the viceroy had not powers to rule, therefore they would govern themselves “until the return of the king” (Tolkien is a thief).
Alos (althoug december covered it) Aaron Copland was born in america. That is more than enough for me.
As was Mossadegh. Have to agree with Mr.Svinlesha - Overthrowing dictators is one thing, overthrowing popular elected officers who pose no immediate threat to world peace is quite another.
msmith
It looks to me like you need to get off your high horse. US is only one of many countries in the world where free speech exists… I have noticed over time that some Americans interchange the rest of the world for oppressed countries. I apologize in advance if I misinterpreted your statement.
Brutus
Lesser of two evils? Beyond the “Brutalian” revision of history you indulged in, this thread does not ask what was better for the US. It asks what are the wrongs and rights US has committed. Surely, you can differentiate between a right and a wrong action independent of whether the actions benefits you or not?
Just a quick comment to ** december’s ** statement:
I would place American contributions in Science and Technology as one of their greatest achievements. The spirit of scientific inquiry is amongst the highest in the world. At the same time, I would like to add that every culture makes contributions to the arts and it is silly to call that an American “benefit”. Sadly, given the nature of US’s power, their writers, film-makers and poets get more visibility around the world.
(Aren’t we supposed to be talking about strictly foreign policy in this thread?)
I was not trying to imply that the US was the only country allowing free speech or even the nation that started the trend.
And the fact is that much of the world is oppressed in some form or another. And I don’t mean being forced to watch American movies or drink our soft drinks.
Atrocities:
The Slave Trade
Making treaties with the Native Americans then breaking them.
Japanese internment camps.
CIA (or was it the FBI) testing drugs on people in the, what was it, the 50’s or so…
Benefits:
Helping to end W.W.II.
Ending the rule of the Taliban.
Protecting S. Korea from N. Korea.
Arresting Manuel Noriega.
Freeing Kuwait.
Keeping the light of democracy alive during WW2.
Providing the fuel to keep that light burning through the Marshal Plan and similar programs in Asia.
Leading the coalition to remove Iraq from Kuwait.
Intervening to help bring WW1 to an end.
Starting the momentum that lead to the League of Nations and ultimately the United Nations.
Reigning in the excesses of the other powers at Versailles.
The Berlin Airlift.
Providing much of the drive that lead to the end of the European empires.
Keeping Western Europe safe from the threat of Soviet power and ultimately helping Eastern Europe and Russia itself to break out from the yoke of communist dictatorships.
Removal of the Taliban.
The Panama Canal.
Helping to keep S. Korea and Taiwan free and democratic.
Not so good
The massacre and subjugation of the Indian nations.
Betrayal of the Philippines after the Spanish American War.
Giving tacit support to Indonesia’s invasion of East Timor.
Giving tacit support to Iraq’s plan to invade Kuwait.
The destruction of Nagasaki and Hiroshima and subsequent arms race.
Repeated veto of UN resolutions condeming Israeli atrocities.
Undermining democracy in several instances including Chile and Iran.
Unilateral invasions in several instances including Grenada and Panama.
CIA support for terrorism in Central America.
Extending the misery of western imperialism in Vietnam.
Support for brutal dictatorships like Saddam’s.
Arms sales to aforementioned brutal dictatorships (including chemical and biological weapons).
Isolation of Cuba.
Undermining socialism in several European countries such as Italy in the post war years.
Creating a climate of fear and hostility in the middle east leading to the rise of Islamist terrorist groups.
It’s a shame we are limited to foreign policy - My good list would be endless if we were permitted to including America’s contributions to democracy, science, technology and the arts.
Postscript
Claiming that the US helped to end apartheid is revisionism at best.
The Bretton Woods agreement created a framework for international agreements
The Peace Corp.
Kennedy’s handling of the Cuban Missile Crisis.
The Camp David Accords and the Oslo agreement.
Bad
Iran-Contra
Undermining the establishment of international law and multi-lateral cooperation :
Kyoto
International Criminal Court
Comprehensive test Ban treaty
anti-ballistic missile treaty
The Bush doctrine of the right of pre-emptive attack
I was thinking that it might be a good idea to start a thread of a similar nature on other countries in the world. Then, one can see how each country has its hands and legs dipped in a fair share of blood proportional to its power. US takes a greater beating only because of the long shadow it casts.
(Much cynicism about the state of world affairs. So few true leaders…)
…implying it was somewhat special here and I pointed out that at least a third of the world enjoy expression free from worrying about being rounded up and tortured by jackbooted thugs. (As an aside, I think this statement to mswas was uncalled for…this is not an USA vs. mswas battle)
litost: I think that would be great, but it would require a different administration, or else crushing the Arabs so wholly, so completely that they’d be unwilling to fight any longer, I’d say 200,000,000 deaths ought to do it. Levelling Mecca and Medina wouldn’t hurt to that end either.
In otherwords it would require a different administration.
One of the dumbest things ever said, or repeated, on these boards is “levelling Mecca and Medina wouldn’t hurt.” Are you completely unaware that there are many Muslims who reside in countries other than Saudi Arabia and are loyal to their countries? Levelling the two most holy places in the world to them would certainly hurt and you’d have a bit more of a problem than what’s happening now.
It is special, especially if you live in the other two thirds of the world.
Because there is an inherent irony in painting America to be an “evil empire” while exercising the very rights that separate America from a true empire. If you want to criticize American foriegn policy or specific historical incidents, that is certainly your right.
Yes…because I too have the right to free speech. If you don’t want your opinion criticized, I suggest you not post it in a public forum. Especially if you post a topic that you know will likely be inflamatory.
Benefit
The worst-treated race in history is the Jews. America was instrumental in curtailing the most effective systematic genocide in history, and can be thanked for the continuation of Jewish culture when it could, literally, have been wiped from the face of the planet.
Atrocity
The second-worst-treated race in history is the native Americans. The sheer number and diversity of language and cultures, not to mention individuals, whose extermination the formation of the US was directly responsible for, rivals any genocide in history.
Well, SentientMeat, not to detract from the things the US is guilty of, I’ve got to say that most of that was put in progress or accomplished far before George Washington was born. The disease vector brought by the colonists wiped a lot of people out, and really started things on their way before the US started muscling people about. That’s not to say the US didn’t finish the job, but we can’t take all the blame for starting it.
What do you do when the president is popularly elected, suspends the constitution, institutes martial law, dismisses the legislature, begins collecting political opponents’ heads on a stick, BUT, does not threaten his neighbors?
It is one thing to say, “the US is not the world’s policeman,” another to say, “that means don’t do anything about internal brutality or genocide.” Historical critics will attack action or inaction. This is one reason nations get involved in ugly covert operations. Of course, those are really attacked by the critics.
I’m aware of the abuses of the military for almost purely economic reasons, but the hypothetical is valid IMO.
Other grey area situations arise all the time. What constitutes “threatening” a neighboring nation? Is North Korea doing it right now?