Satan–No, but I wouldn’t be suprised if they needed written instructions to know how to wipe their asses after taking a shit.
jr8–you make good points and I’m not claiming all foreign students are unqualified.
I’m ranting in the BBQ pit, not asking a GQ or a GD.
The postdoc I work with is foreign and he’s extremely competent (he was author of the work that made the cover of the journal). But he’s not Chinese and the article in the Post was about cheating in China and I have to work with two Chinese students that can’t do shit, although their GREs and TOEFLs scores are higher than his. This is my personal situation. But I know I’m not alone in thinking these test scores are suspect.
These two would have trouble earning a cup of coffee if they weren’t subsidized grad students.
jr8–you said you were an admissions officer, so you might find this interesting:
We had a big debate about in the office the other day, the postdoc and I had pointed out the Post article to the two Chinese students. They were pissed off that someone would insinuate that there is cheating on tests in China. “Not true” was a phrase used over and over. It seems it’s all anti-chinese propaganda. As proof, they offered up a copy of an email (and I can’t know the provenance of it, but it was their exibit of evidence) that was sent to the deans and admissions offices of US schools by the chair of the ETS (which administers the GRE and TOEFL). Whatever, I can’t know if this is a real email from the ETS
The crux of the email was that the ETS was posting a notification that the security of the GRE had been compromised and the Testing Service had noticed a dramatic increase in GRE scores by chinese test takers in the last year or so. Increases that were statistically irregular when compared to other countries and past chinese scores–as in red flag increases. The text also had the obligatory caveats about using test scores as only a part of the evaluation process and that there was no way of knowing if a student had access to the test questions beforehand. The email stressed that the tests had been compromised and that admission people should take that into consideration and compare the scores with the rest of the qualifications.
What gets me is the fact that this email is offered as a arguement by the chinese students I debated this with as evidence that chinese don’t cheat, because the email said there was no way of knowing which students could have cheated (the ETS has no way of knowning; all they know is that the test is compromised and chinese scores have shot up since) and that it’s improper to assume that anybody cheated without specific evidence. Nevertheless, the bottom line is that the test scores are suspect.
So, the memo warning admissions offices in the US about suspect scores is evidence that there’s no cheating on tests in China–because it states that you can’t know about a particular student’s score for sure. I don’t know if this memo is real, but that’s beside the point, because the chinese students debating this with me believe it is.
Bottom line of the memo–recent scores in China may be compromised.
And this is their exhibit A. If they really had 95 percentile+ verbal scores on the GRE (which is a LOT higher than most americans, obviously born to the language, get) I would think their reading comprehension would be greater.
This memo was only a single page and they don’t get it. The foreign postdoc with the lower (probably legitmate) scores got it as soon as he saw it.
jr8–you make legitamate points, like I’ve said. I’m just venting in the Pit, not debating you. I’m just pissed that american taxes support the phonies.
And consider this: the recent bombing of AA missle sites in Iraq were timed to avoid the chinese working at the target sites.
Isn’t possible that the chinese who sell their techincal expertise to the Iraqis received their training in the US at american tax dollar expense?
Foreign students who do real research are legitimate in our system.
Let’s give the dummies to Iraq Or, save our money in the first place.
As to chinese culture, I can’t tell you how many times I’ve seen chinese students copy homework or assignments from each other. What I’m talking about is, sure students will collaborate (everybody does it), but to blatantly copy shit verbatim right before it’s due (in the lecture hall) is a bit much. I personally suspect that this is due to being part of a communal society and the fact that there is pressure to exceed in a strange and foreign land/ academic setting.
Is there anything to my thought about Tianemmen? Square, do you think? Look what happened when the Chinese Goverment had to deal with college students who could think for themselves. The solution maybe: students who can’t think for themselves. They do want they are told. I don’t know how the college system works in the PRC, but maybe the PRC goverment wanted drones after TS, maybe? If they think for themselves, trouble may ensue.
Now, I’m dealing with drones. Or at least it seems like it.
I’m not saying that all chinese (or foreign students) are deficient. Of course not, that would be BS. I’m just pissed about the BS I witness. And pay for with tax dollars.