Wikipedia offers this commentary:
Irony is best known as a figure of speech (more precisely called verbal irony) in which there is a gap or incongruity between what a speaker or a writer says, and what is understood. …
It is a widely accepted belief in Britain, Australia, and Canada that Americans are unable to understand the use of irony which is characteristic of Commonwealth humour. This, of course, is a broad overgeneralization, for there are many Americans who do understand and even use irony regularly. However, this varies from region to region and from ethnicity to ethnicity, and “straight shooting” Americans can be confused by deadpan, ironic comments if they are unaccustomed to double meanings. The unfortunate result is that an American, assuming that what someone says is exactly what they mean, can simply find a visiting Brit rude. Cultural miscommunication of this type is common.
Similar to variation in the styles of humour and comedy, it would appear that some national or cultural frameworks find irony difficult to appreciate, while others appear to anticipate or expect usage. It is also possible that the “implicit” signals that irony is present (e.g. tone of voice, posture) vary from culture to culture independently of language, since often members of different cultures in the same language group each believe the other fails to understand irony.
However Wikipedia also states:
How should the comments be cleaned up?
What a pity there isn’t a talk page attached to that wikipedia page, where this sort of thing could be discussed :dubious:
That would be a good idea.
XT
April 24, 2006, 7:15am
4
I would find it ironic that the OP chose to bring this here instead of using Wiki’s forum, but, well, being an American, irony is beyond my grasp.
BTW, whats the REAL point of this ‘debate’ Sevastopol? Its certainly not to discuss how different cultures use and understand irony. Is it, by chance, to discuss America and American’s, perhaps in an unflattering (though inane) light…?
-XT
Please. All of us Americans understand irony.
It’s like goldy or silvery, but made out of iron.
This thread is like rain on your wedding day, or a free ride when you’ve already paid. Or perhaps it’s like the good advice that you just didn’t take.
Who woulda thought? It figures.
No, no, no.
Irony is the opposite of wrinkly.
From an American musical:
REAL LEELA [to Robot Devil]
*That isn’t what I meant.
REAL ROBOT DEVIL
*You should have checked the wording in the fine - print. *
REAL LEELA [reading contract]
*I’ll give you my hand- *
REAL LEELA AND ROBOT DEVIL
*In marriage. *
REAL BENDER [reading dictionary]
"The use of words describing something other than their literal intention!" now that’s irony!
-Futurama, 2003
That’s not irony, thats just crappy luck. On the other hand, the singer is Canadian, so I guess Wikipedia was wrong on this one.
This thread is like rain on your wedding day, or a free ride when you’ve already paid. Or perhaps it’s like the good advice that you just didn’t take.
Who woulda thought? It figures.
Irish comedian has some strong feeling about the lack of irony in that song.
“Like a traffic jam when you’re already late.”
That’s not ironic, it’s just a pain in the hole, that’s what that is. When was the last time you were late for something, got stuck in a traffic jam and said “Look at the irony on this, there’s irony for ya! I’ll tell ya I was in a fierce ironic traffic jam the other day I’ll tell ya. The irony was ninety!”
No, there’s nothing ironic about being stuck in a traffic jam when you’re late for something. Unless you’re a town planner. If you were a town planner and you were on your way to a seminar of town planners at which you were giving a talk on how you solved the problem of traffic congestion in your area, but couldn’t get to it because you were stuck in a traffic jam, that’d be well ironic. “I’m sorry I’m late - you’ll never guess…”
“It’s like rain on your wedding day.” Only if you’re marrying a weatherman and he set the date.
I could go on and I will.
A no-smoking sign on your cigarette break, that’s inconsiderate office management. A no-smoking sign in a cigarette factory - irony. It’s not a difficult concept, Alanis. It’s very rare you see an ironic no-smoking sign, although if you ever see one of those that say “thank-you for not smoking” and you are, that’s fairly ironic.
The best line in that song has got to be the line “It’s like 10,000 spoons when all you need is a knife.” That’s not ironic, that’s just bloody stupid.
How big is your sink, Alanis? We haven’t got 10,000 spoons beween us, have we? What do you need this knife for? To stab the bloke who keeps leaving spoons all over your house. But we’ll give her the benefit of the doubt. Imagine you needed a knife for something, couldn’t find one cause all you find was 10,000 spoons. Could happen. And therefore you couldn’t do whatever it was you needed the knife for - then the next day it turned out that a spoon would have done.
I could be mistaken (I am, after all, just an American), but I do believe that Airman Doors, USAF was being ironic quoting the Alanis song and was in fact aware that the situations described were not ironic.
yojimbo seems to have demonstrated that it is not so much that Americans cannot handle irony as it is that non-Yank speakers of English appear to be unable to recognize irony when employed by Yanks.
On the other hand, Malodorous would appear to reinforce the notion that some Yanks do miss irony when it is displayed.
Here’s Eric Idle’s take on the subject:
Speaking of irony, it is a cliche of British journalism that Americans have no sense of irony. I have never bought into this British myth, and wonder how it arose. Does it go back to Dickens, who was very bitter after his tour of America? Is it something Oscar Wilde said? He was, after all, superbly ironic. Indeed his whole life was irony. Whatever the truth about American irony in the nineteenth century, and surely you can’t ignore Mark Twain, it seems to me that a country that has produced Lenny Bruce, Nichols and May, Gary Shandling, Larry David, Steve Martin, Chevy Chase, and Jack Benny, all masters of the form, can hardly be accused of lacking irony. Perhaps the Brits are just being ironic?
I would find it ironic that the OP chose to bring this here instead of using Wiki’s forum, but, well, being an American, irony is beyond my grasp.
BTW, whats the REAL point of this ‘debate’ Sevastopol? Its certainly not to discuss how different cultures use and understand irony. Is it, by chance, to discuss America and American’s, perhaps in an unflattering (though inane) light…?
-XT
Hey, where’s the love? So far I win for the least ironic post in this thread, with the OP. A direct question, now a direct answer. The REAL point of this ‘debate’ (should it evolve into such) is to inquire whether people believe there is any truth or foundation to the comments I quoted from Wikidpedia. I have occasionally encountered similar sentiments and comments from others. Rather than stating such as my own opinion, I thought I’d refer to those of a third party and put the question out there. You know, for debate.
To simplify:
Is there something in American (USA) culture that is resistant to the use of irony?
Is irony considered rude, or an affront to the values Americans bring to discussion?
Is irony used across differring cultures commonly misunderstood?
and if so, why? No acrimony or disparagement req’d.
Summary of summary:
'Tis.
<Simpsons>
Gen X Kid 2 (miserably): I don’t even know anymore.
Nope I was just looking for a reason the quote the brilliant, IMO, Ed Byrne
Hey, F. Scott Fitzgerald made Irony and Pity famous back in the 1920s.
In this case we have the irony of someone taking Wikipedia as gospel on the subject, leading us to pity him.
And who might that be, this ‘taker of Wikipedia as gospel’?
Yes, I must confess that, as a typical American, I don’t comprehend irony at all. But I do have a solid grasp on sarcasm.
EEMan
April 24, 2006, 2:37pm
20
LonesomePolecat:
Yes, I must confess that, as a typical American, I don’t comprehend irony at all. But I do have a solid grasp on sarcasm.
Hum, sarcasm it isn’t just for Americans anymore.
Wikipedia is to truth what green eggs and ham are to breakfast.
Sure it is possible to have the two in the same realm; but with an open format for editing… I’m sure you get the point.
I also find it amusing just how Ironic many of the posts in this thread are, but then again perhaps I simply don’t understand Irony.
(Just for a point of reference, many of those who are noted for being “American” and “Ironic” are actually Canadian imports; though not all)
