Indeedy-do.
I don’t trust this administration one bit, but I wouldn’t suspect a false flag attack without overwhelming evidence that this was the case. What I would suspect is that any statements from the administration about the attack would be very likely to be inaccurate, and should not be trusted without fact-checking. It’s much more Trump’s style to take existing events and put a self-serving spin on them, or, in some cases, to fabricate events outright; I can’t really see him, or even Bannon, causing an attack when it’s much easier and less risky to wait for one to happen and then lie about it.
Noticed this interesting (off-topic)bit.
That is so cool.
Not true. Weird conspiracy theory time.
Is it possible that Trump would consider it? Maybe. But he’d have to give orders and those guys would say NO or there’d be leaks. Not gonna happen.
This is tin foil hat time.
No, it is true. Read your in-depth history. His oil embargo on Japan was a hostile act, opposed by the America Firsters. He knew it would provoke them, that is why he put it in place.
In line with what Hari Seldon said, my gut-level reaction would be “our own government is about to do far far worse by us than the terrorists”. It’s always been my fear, or at least since I was old enough to sort such stuff out. Sooner or later, someone — the Symbionese Liberation Army clone of the current moment — was going to set off a small nuke in a major western city and then BOOM! police state, to protect us.
It’s not a whole lot more or less scary if the terrorist attack is faked. It’s the same issue either way.
That in no way “forced” Pearl Harbor. A hostile act doesn’t have to be met with an attack on our naval abilities. The logic doesn’t even make sense–why would attacking us actually cause us to pull back? Attacking us gives us means the people can now be convinced they have to go to war.
“Hostile”? :dubious:Compared to the invasion of China? Rape of Nanking? Invasion of Indochina? Look, yes, the USA put mild economic sanctions on Japan for its aggressive wars.
And the in depth history shows that the USA expected a diplomatic solution.
The US was taking a neutral posture toward that fighting over there and n that other place. To cut off the oil pipe – 80% of the fuel that Japan needed to advance its enterprises – was a drastic move on the part of an unallied spectator. This happened in mid-1941 and was not a “mild economic sanction”. It was crippling.
As far as the rape of Nanking, that town was in China, not the US. It was not America’s business, who were not the world’s policeman at that time.
What I see do not support that inference. The US was taking a hard line in negotiations, basically demanding that Japan kowtow. There is little indication that they were hoping for or expecting a diplomatic resolution. It seems obvious to me that Frankie wanted the US to get into the global conflict and that this was the quickest route in.
I love that “the fuel that Japan needed to advance its enterprises” :rolleyes:. You mean “the fuel that Japan needed to continue it’s illegal and immoral warcrimes and war of aggression”.
Kowtow? :rolleyes:All we asked is for Japan to stop it’s illegal and immoral warcrimes and war of aggression. In fact it seems like we were willing to let them keep Manchukuo as a puppet state, even.
Read Japan 1941: Countdown to Infamy the USA was trying for a diplomatic resolution.
In any case, *the Japanese could have just fucking stopped their stupid war. *
I think it’s much more likely we will see more and more Bowling Green Massacres. Sweden is the latest victim of a stealth attack.
It’s always interesting when someone uses “obvious” about something not supported by history.
The situation was far more complex and actually requires some understanding of the events as well as FDR’s thoughts and actions as well as the other parties involved.
However, this is all a hijack and would be better served in a separate thread.
Right, start another thread then, eschereal, if you want.
Wouldn’t even enter my mind. Now awake to the news that “America just foiled a major terrorist attack” and my hinky-meter would be screaming off the charts.
When the 9th circuit stayed the immigration ban, The Apprentice said “If there is a terrorist attack, blame them” my first thought was he or Putin would make sure that happened. Hope It’s just my over active imagination coming up with that stuff.
Aggressive? America had its entire naval fleet anchored in a harbor in the middle of an ocean, to which Japan had an equal claim. What were the Americans doing “defending” an entire ocean for itself? America had a Monroe Doctrine, empowering it to control two continents against meddling from abroad, with the same level of authority that Japan was using to exercise its influence over its own geographical sphere.
The U.S. did not “claim” the Pacific Ocean. The U.S. defended open transit of international waters.
Meanwhile Japan was invading other countries. Any equating of the two is absurd.
Perhaps start a new thread for the WWII discussion?
I’d love to see one concrete example of a false flag (and, no, the Reichstag fire was not one*). “False flag” is just a rallying cry for conspiracy theorists who have limited grasp of how things work outside of comic books.
What would happen is that the Trump administration embarked on a policy to provoke an attack. ISIS’s whole reason for being is to argue that the US hates Muslims, and this plays right into their hands. Eventually, someone may buy into their argument and perform an attack. The person doing it will not necessarily have anything to do with ISIS except to listen to their propaganda (ISIS takes credit for any attack by Muslims against the West, but nearly all of them are people acting on their own.)
It would be a real attack, but its root would be in the policies of our government.
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*Van der Lubbe confessed to it, and this was to the Berlin police before the Nazis took it over. He may have had help, but it’s clear from accounts that Hitler was surprised when it happened. Hitler, however, was always an opportunist, and he took advantage of the event, just like the took advantage of events many times in his rise to power.