Would I be able to just up and move to Paris or Vienna? For how long? All those expat writers and artists did it in the 1920s . . .
Friends of mine have been given the heave-ho from London and Germany because they couldn’t get work visas and their tourist visas ran out.
Could I live in Paris, then when they threw me out move to Vienna, and keep on ping-ponging between the two?
Eve, you may want to contact the French consulate. I’m sure they could give you the lowdown.
FWIW, David Sedaris (a truely funny guy) is now living in Paris and sending weekly dispatches back to NPR’s Morning Edition on Tuesdays.
Depends. If you hold a European passport, for example, there’s no problem whatsoever travelling to/from or working in any of the EU countries.
On the other hand, if you’re on an American (or other non-EU passport)…
If you’re intending to work, you need to have a visa/work-permit for that country. Technically, that’s true even if you’re not being paid in the country (for instance, if your employer is in the UK and you’re working in Germany but still paid out of the UK.) In practice, the question of whether they catch you depends on the circumstances. If you are hopping in and out of the country on a regular basis, they’ll catch that from your passport. That could be how your friends got caught – and, once you’ve been deported for working without a permit, it’s VERY difficult to get a permit.
OTOH, it’s usually fairly easy to get a work permit for most countries in the EU, but it does depend on what you do, who your employer is, etc. Germany’s been cracking down recently, and the UK is a stickler.
Now, if you’re talking about just moving to (say) Paris, without working, then you’d need a residency permit. LIke if you’re independently wealthy, so you’re not trying to get income while you’re there. I’m not sure of the time frame on that, I’d guess more than 90 days, but that’s a WAG.
And no, you wouldn’t be able to hop back and forth from Paris to Vienna, they’d catch you sooner or later. You’d need to do multi-country hops, I think, and there’s still a risk of being caught. Again, once deported, it’s dickens of a time going back. The safest course is to talk to an attorney who specializes in such visas, or talk to the consulate of the country and ask what you need to do, and to follow the legal requirements.
Hope that helps.
I don’t know the answer to your question, but my guess is that EC nations probably share information, and if you are tossed from one, yout chances of entering another are slim.
Here’s another approach, which would work for some people. At least one EC nation (Ireland) has unusually liberal residency and citizenship laws. Last time I checked, anyone with even one Irish grandparent had the right to apply for Irish citizenship. In my case, my mother was an Irish citizen when I was born, so I would qualify. Also (and again, this is based upon research I did some years ago, so things may have changed), authors and artists were encouraged to settle in Ireland, to the point of getting special tax breaks.
Yes, I know you mentioned Paris and Vienna rather than Dublin, but it is my understanding that a citizen of one EC nation can automatically work in another. I’m not sure if this applies to permanent residents of an EC country.
In your case, Eve, I’m fairly certain that you’re not of Irish descent, but if your recent ancestors emigrated from an EC nation, that nation may have a similar law.
Hmmm . . . Thanks. Naw, once I get there, I have no intention of “working.” I’m planning to be a Lady Who Lunches. Guess I’ll just have to make a stop in Vienna on my way to Paris . . .
—Mme. Recamier
But don’t think that it’s in any sense easy to immigrate to an EC country. Though it was years ago (pre EC) that I looked into it, I found that immigration to the Netherlands was not possible, implying that it didn’t matter what skills you possessed, you still couldn’t do it.
Basically, unless you are a wildly successful entrepreneur or otherwise rich, and you live in America, then America is where you will stay. We take in immigrants, but the EC countries don’t. In defense of this closed door policy it must be pointed out that Europe is already one of the most densely populated regions in the world, though they seem to manage their space so well that you almost can’t tell. I think that’s one of the things that Americans like about
Europe when they visit.
Here in America we’re not nearly so densely populated, but our use of space (slight hijack coming) is so profligate that it would be impossible to pack that many of us in and
retain anything resembling a quality of life. But current
immigration and fertility trends indicate that there will be
almost a billion Americans by 2100 (end of hijack).
There are open borders across the Schengen region (basically the EU minus Britain, Ireland and the Scandinavian countries) so as long as you kept one step ahead of the local immigration officials (and provided you could support yourself somehow) you could pretty much travel all over the Continent without fear of getting caught at the border and chucked back home.
(of course, they CAN stop you at the border if they really want to. just at these borders they usually don’t.)
>> We take in immigrants, but the EC countries don’t
This is simply NOT true. I know for a fact that the EU takes in immigrants in great numbers (although I do not know how they compare with the USA).
Hey, stick with me, babe, I got connections. I can make a few calls, pull a few strings, get you a nice situation at the Grand Boucherie des Chevals.
I have an American friend who fell in love with a Parisian. She moved there but, i think, after 6 months - or maybe a year - they had to squat a while in Germany because her visa was up.
I don’t believe it’s a work permit issue, they just want you the hell out after a while. Of course, they can’t do that to English folk because of the EU. They just stop talking to you.
The answer might be to marry a woman (as you can do), which avoids all the unnecessary messy stuff that comes with male-female arranged marriages. Have a think about it - I’d make a smashing Bridesmaid.
An ABCnews item about these programs in the various European countries is here. The last time I looked into this sort of thing, Germany was relatively strict, but apparently they have loosened up somewhat since then. This is potentially important to me, since my grandfather was born there.
I don’t know whether this is true for Americans, but Commonwealth citizens with British ancestry can get into the UK fairly easily. If you have one British grandparent you can apply for an ancestry visa, which entitles you to live and work for four years. Once that time’s up you can apply for residency, and after five years (IIRC) full citizenship.
When you think of the Americans who want to live in Europe and the Europeans who want to live in America and they all have to deal with the stupidity of the bureacracy…
There should be an agreement where you could just trade places with someone. You’re an American who wants to live in Europe? Find a European who would like to reside in the USA and trade places. Doesn’t that make sense? Why don’t the darned bureaucrats quit make life difficult for the rest of us?
Try this site:
http://www.escapeartist.com
A little over the top, but you might be able to find some information that is useful.
I would have to recommend Prague, CZ though…I live here and it is great! As an American you can stay here as long as your money holds out. Officially you only have a 30 day visa, BUT no westerner ever gets caught or hassled (they just hassle the Ukrainians, etc), and if you want to be honest, you can pop over the border to Germany(Poland, Austria, Slovakia, etc), then come right back for another 30 days. But seriously- no worries about length of stay. I have many friends who have never bothered about things like that and they have been here for 8 years.
Prague has everything an expat could want. A historic, gorgeous place where every day there are cultural events galore, wonderful areas to explore all around, public transportation is the best around(no need for a car), a lot of people speak English and there are plenty of other expats so you can make friends in say, oh, a beer’s worth of time…Did I mention the beer? Best in the world! Which will lead me to prices- CHEAP! You can live in a nice apartment for US$300 to US$500 a month (higher rent, nicer view), food can be as low as US$100 a month for healthy in-home eating, or just eat every meal at one of a thousand places- Lunch US$2.00 to US$5, Dinner US$4 to US$30 (for a fancy meal). My wife and I live fairly comfortably on under $700 a month for both of us (attic apartment, eat out 2 to 3 times a week, excursions on weekends, beer). If you are younger, there are Raves and dance clubs going every night of the week. Older? Well, every night there are classical concerts and plays and operas and neat cafe’s open til the wee hours as well. Artist? Saw a bungalow with 2 art studios near a castle for US$150 a month rent(middle of nowhere, but hey). An art studio here in the industrial part of town would be around US$200 a month.
If you are feeling even more adventurous, you could live in Brno- about 2 hours north of Vienna. Cheaper than Prague, but prettier in my eyes. Less industry, cleaner air, surrounded by forrests, more relaxed, but not as cosmo as Prague- you’d have to learn a little Czech to get around, but not much…
Tired of the scenery? Skip on down to Greece for 7 days- from Prague by air with a bungalow, US$300 to US$400. Better deals exist to other places or by bus (I saw an ad for a bus trip to the coast of Croatia with a room on the beach for 10 days for US$250, but 16 hours by bus…eeewww!)
Paris had its heyday in the 20’s…come to Prague, its better here.
Eve, I’m with TomCat on this one, couldn’t have said it better. Waaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhhhh I want to go back!
Also check out Budapest, Hungary and Krakow, Poland for beatiful, livable cities with amazing architecture and culture. Much cheaper than Paris or Vienna. As an American you won’t be hassled about visa stuff.
No. Actually Prague sucks. It’s just terrible. Stay away.
(and leave it for us 
)
this thread got me thinking…i kinda wanna travel the world for a year…just doing odd jobs to survive. maybe dish wash somewhere or something. just wander. and get deported back to the usa.
would i suffer any fines or be detained for extensive periods in a prision of i get deported back to the usa? cuz this would be on a shoestring budget. i don’t wanna blow my wad (of money) on fines…
ubermensch - Dude, there is a whole world out there of 100,000’s of students doing exactly what your talking about. It’s a kind of circuit: Sydney, Thailand, India, US, Europe is the standard kind of route over 12 months.
Year round trip air tickets are very, very cheap although not necessarily in the US because it’s the only English speaking country where the ‘Gap Year’ tour isn’t huge (I do mean ‘huge’). You can buy it from London for about $1,000. If you’re serious, I’d suggest doing what some American’s do which is to get a student working visa for here, work and stay in a pub, get into the travelling grapevine (everyone you’ll work with will be into it) and get a ticket.
It’s really not a big deal to organise, London is pretty much the centre for this kind of thing because the tickets are very, very cheap, the kind of work is so available (arrive today, stay at the YMCA, start work - with accommodation- tomorrow) and there is such an enormous travelling culture.
Work in first world countries (UK, Australia, Europe) and hang in the developing world where money goes a long way). As long as you get that first working visa, you can get the rest as you need them (join the queue at the American Embassy here at about 6.00am) Go for it.
Work ? things kind of work out. It’s a state of mind.
I live in Paris and I love it! I tried to leave once to go back and live in the States but within 10 months I was back.
I haven´t tried Prague yet, it sounds like a great place.
How to get to Paris legally? You seem to imply that money isn´t a big deal but you don´t need a whole lot to sign up for an Alliance Francaise or Sorbonne University french class and thereby entitling yourself to a Student Visa which gives you a one-year, renewable right to live in France as long as you are a student. After 3 full years, when you go in for your 4th Carte de Sejour residency permit, you can apply for a 10 year residency permit which is almost slam dunk for Americans. It also gives you a right to work if you are so inclined. There are some Parisian websites (one I can think of is Paris Anglophone or similar name) where people talk specifically about this question and others. Like how to find an apartment once you get there, etc.
Bon Courage!
ubermensch – if you want a working holiday visa, there’s usually age restrictions, and they often require you to prove in advance that you have a return air ticket and a certain amount in savings (I needed to show £2,500 for a 12-month Australian working holiday visa in 1997).
You obviously don’t need that for a plain tourist visa, and you can find cash-in-hand work easily enough (usually manual labour or agriculture, though). However, if you get caught – and countries like Australia often sweep rural areas for this – you’ll be unceremoniously deported and may not be able to travel to the country again. Ever.
Summary: if you never plan to travel again to a country, take the chance. If you do plan to, don’t risk it. Immigration officers are a law unto themselves (almost literally: the decision to allow someone in comes down to the individual officer’s discretion in the UK) and don’t like being messed around.
When I travelled to LA on the way back from Sydney I was nearly refused entry purely because I hadn’t booked a hotel in advance – I was told that a place to stay was a requirement for entry, despite planning to use the “find accommodation” desk at LAX to do just that.
Final note: if you do apply for a working holiday visa, do it well in advance, and in your home country. It can take a long time to get it done, and there are often annual quotas (I missed out on New Zealand as there were no working visas left).