Oh boo, that bums me out. Stupid slump. Ah well, thanks much for the answer.
If another baseball league formed to compete with MLB, and they were “anything goes” as far as PEDs, I would be interested and watch their games.
At least everyone would be on even ground. I find that much preferable to a few people cheating and getting fabulously rich and famous from it while many honest players are rewarded far less for being honest. “The Big Hurt”, Frank Thomas, lost out on the MVP award in, I believe, 2000, to Jason Giambi who later admitted in 2007 that all of those earlier accomplishments were steroid fueled.
But they pay the price long term. Lyle Alzado’s brain cancer death at 43 may have been due to his anabolic steroid use.
It happened. And we did watch. MLB was complicit with PEDs, as were the fans. I knew Barry was juicing. Okay, maybe not ‘knew’ but strongly suspected.
Mark McGwire used to have back injuries frequently. Then he started juicing and, voila!, no more injuries. Or at least he healed a lot faster.
Remember Danny Darwin? This discussion reminded me of him, just now. He was a RHP who pitched for 8 teams in a 21 season career. His last team was the Giants in 1998.
In that 1998 SFG season he and Bonds got into an altercation in the dugout during an April game. In April 1998 Darwin was 42, and Bonds was 33. Wiki describes it briefly.
One quote I remember after that incident was Darwin saying something like, “I don’t know, call me old school but when I played the game, hitters declined as they got older, they didn’t get better.”
Something like that. I’ll look for it.
This is simply incorrect - go and look at the list of players who have tested positive over the years. You’re making a lot of weird unfounded statements in this thread.
Never gonna happen. As long as athletes believe that there are advantages to be had from PEDs, they will be pushing the line. There will be a constant push by the athletes to stay one step ahead of the testing organizations, and a response by the leagues to catch up.
I’m all for testing, I think PEDs should be banned, but I don’t think today’s athletes are appreciably cleaner than those in the past. At least that is my assumption unless proved otherwise.
I can’t seem to find the Danny Darwin quote, but I remember it so well because it really hit the nail on the head.
All athletes are encouraged to cheat. Any competitive advantage gained means you stay longer and play longer, and better. And you can be compensated very well for that, not just financially but there’s also the fan adulation.
Like the quote from the movie, Hoosiers (1986):
Myra Fleener: “I don’t want this to be the high point of his life. I’ve seen them, the real sad ones. They sit around the rest of their lives talking about their glory days, when they were 17 years old.”
Norman Dale: “You know, most people would kill to be treated like a god, just for a few moments.”
My response was to the person who said he would watch an “anything goes” baseball league, so the idea is that there would be no lines to push, no standards to meet, and no rules in place in regards to performance enhancing drugs.
Fair enough, I think we’re in agreement there.
You can find game by game logs for any player on Baseball Reference; here is Maris in 1961.
He tied Ruth in Game 159 and broke the record in the very last game.
Judge hit #61 in Game 155. (I am counting games by team games - Judge has missed four games.)
I said, “a few”. So, your saying that people like Sammy Sosa, Mark McGuire, Jason Giambi, etc did not get way more famous and wealthy from their steroid use, and that my claim that they did is a “weird and unfounded” statement? Hmm …
That’s why I question the Judge is known to be clean. I just suspect any pro athlete of using cleaner 'roids and better maskers.
Yes, and that’s a ridiculous thing to say. The list of those who have tested positive is long, and filled with a LOT of names you’ve never seen before. And it still doesn’t include the names of McGwire, Soda, Bonds, etc., and doesn’t prove that guys like Frank Thomas didn’t use anything.
The PED era wasn’t a high point for MLB. But everyone knew what was happening, and no one gave a shit at the time.
“A few” is ridiculous when, without a doubt, “a few” have? We’re just not communicating, and this exchange is becoming absurd. I’m done with you.
“Without a doubt” 79 players on MLB rosters and 72 with MLB experience on minor league rosters (or who were FAs) tested positive for PEDs. Those are post-2004 numbers. That is more than “a few”, and the vast majority didn’t gain fame and fortune.
This court of public opinion is the uneven playing ground. “Oh, Bagwell was a juicer - I can just tell, just like these other guys who I can’t prove anything about. Poor poor Frank Thomas and Griffey were saints I tell ya!”
Jose Canseco is currently trying to get people to pay him $79 for him to follow people on Twitter. Pretty low bar for fame and fortune these days…
I loathe Barry Bonds, but yeah, steriods will turn a double into a homer, but they can’t turn a whiff into a hit.
That has nothing to do with my original statement. You’re saying that, because a high number of players tested positive for steroids, that somehow negates the statement I made that “a few” achieved levels of fame and wealth far beyond what they would have achieved otherwise.
Both of these statements are true, but they are “disassociated facts”. There is NO cause and effect relationship between. One has nothing to do with the other in terms of effect and validity. Yet, this is your “argument”?
As Nomad said to Kirk in the original Star Trek episode, “The Changeling”:
“Non sequitur. Your facts are uncoordinated.”
And Nomad fried himself, blew himself up!
Bonds’ eye and plate discipline were legendary. But how many HRs would have died at the warning track?
And, getting back to Judge, do people think he’s taking any kind of performance enhancers?