I am a fundie,but wouldnot kill my child.
I would assume I was hearing voices and that it wasn’tGod.
Abraham heard voices, and assumed it WAS God, at least according to the legend. How do you tell the difference?
Is there any reason for this? Doesn’t seem terribly immoral to my untrained eye, is there a backstory for why this would be an undesirable practice?
There are some commandments in the Torah for which we don’t know the reason. We simply accept that God gave us the commandment and we observe it.
However, that does not stop us from speculating as to possible reasons for the commandment. A famous attempt to explain this one brings down that Cain’s offering to God consisted of linen while Abel’s offering consisted of wool. Because of the dichotomy between the two offerings and the events that followed it, God (so we presume) said that the two should never be brought together again.
Zev Steinhardt
The point is that I don’t feel God would ever tell any of us to kill anyone. In fact He has forbidden us from it, as discussed earlier in this thread.
With all due respect for your scholarly knowledge of the text of the Torah, which far exceeds mine, WHAT ARE YOU SMOKING to take this as an inalterable commandment from, as you so delicately put it, “G-d”? Isn’t this exactly taken from the same cloth (so to speak) as the fundie’s arguments?
That may be your point, but it isn’t mine, and I was the one who asked the question.
Also, you were the one who said "God asked Abraham to kill his son as sacrifice as a test. He just wanted to see if Abraham was willing to give up his son for Him and His will. " Are you now saying that you don’t think this is true? God didn’t actually ask Abraham to kill his son?
I don’t know off the top of my head, but let me do some research and see what I can find. I’m pretty sure that there is, but I’m not sure where.
Andrew
Increase Mather was Cotton Mather’s father, and they were Puritans of the laste 1600’s. I hear that the Puritans of the time named their kids after virtues and such… no cite.
F_X
No!
It isn’t about a cotton/poly blend that the bible meant, it was mixing plaids and polka dots. Now that is sinful.
Ok, well you are the only Christian I know who doesn’t believe that story.
Mind you, I realize fully that (according to the story–I’m not a Christian and think the Bible is about as real as Harry Potter) God didn’t intend for him to actually kill his son, that his plan was to swap out the ram the whole time… but that doesn’t change the fact that he initially did ask him to kill his son. But according to you it didn’t happen? Does your church teach that or is it just an element of the Bible that you chose to dismiss independantly?
independently.
Stupid fingers.
I’m sorry, Musicat, was there something you missed in your four plus years on these boards?
Orthodox Jews believe that the Torah was given by God to the Jews at Sinai. In it are 613 commandments. Among these commandments are:
[ul]
[li]To not eat non-kosher food[/li][li]To keep Shabbos[/li][li]To blow a shofar on Rosh HaShannah[/li][li]To fast on Yom Kippur[/li][li]To not eat chametz on Passover[/li][li]To circumcize our sons[/li][li]To put tefillin on our heads and arms daily[/li][li]To not make tatoos in our flesh[/li][li]Not to wear clothing of the opposite gender[/li][li]To write a Torah scroll[/li][/ul]
In all these cases, we don’t know why God commanded these things. As I said earlier, we can try to posit reasons, but we can’t say for certain why He commanded them. We simply follow the commandments. If it surprises you after over four years on these boards that Orthodox Jews observe the commandments because we believe God told us to, then you haven’t been paying attention.
In any event, if you want to believe that I am smoking something because I don’t wear wool-linen blends, or because I dispose of my chametz over Passover, or refrain from getting tatoos, so be it. However, suffie it to say that Orthodox Jews all over the world keep the same commandments as I do, and if so, then we must all be smoking the same thing. :rolleyes:
Zev Steinhardt
That isn’t what I meant either, and I think you know it. I give up; it’s not worth the effort anymore. Believe what you want.
I don’t “know it”… I’m trying to figure out what you’re talking about. Do you believe God told Abraham to kill his son or don’t you? You aren’t making any sense. Go ahead and “give up” if you can’t coherantly express your ideas, but don’t blame it on me.
For all those who’d like to discuss the Abraham sacrificing of his son thing, let’s move it over here.
Gotta love those old biblical laws and such. 
Incidentally, what is the consensus on Samuel, chapter 20:30-42?
This is a tricky post, because of several reasons.
Firstly the topic may be drifitng away from the forum.
Secondly this is a potentially emotional topic.
However I’ll have a go.
BellaDellaItalia,
I think there are clear implications if you put the Biblical God first in your life. I understand that Jesus was a marvellous role-model, eschewing violence, loving children and giving moral guidance. However the God of the Old Testament is not someone I want to obey:
-
God told Abraham to sacrifice his son. Abraham built an altar, tied his son to it and was ‘stretching forward his hand’ (Genesis 22 v10) to kill Isaac when God suddenly told him to stop.
I find this an appalling example of child abuse. -
When Pharoah was holding the Israelites prisoner in Egypt, Moses asked for their freedom, saying God wanted it. Pharoah refuses, so God sends various punishments (the plagues).
The final plague was when God killed all the firstborn in Egypt. (Exodus 12 v34).
Was this appalling slaughter necessary?
Amazingly it was all God’s plan. Twice God ‘hardens Pharoah’s heart’ so he will not let the Israelites go. (Exodus 10 v27; Exodus 11 v10).
I would never worship such a vicious God. -
Jepthah, a captain of Israel, promises God a burnt offering ‘of whatsoever comes forth of the doors of my house to meet me when I return’ if God in return gives victory over the Ammonites.
It seems ludicrous to me that he did not foresee it might be his only child. It was indeed his daughter and he duly sacrificed his child to God, in exchange for a military victory. (Judges 12 v29-40).
Words fail me.
Don’t forget the black sheep of the family, Anti Mather and Dark Mather.