I started this thread over in MPSIMS for no reason other than to relate a conversation I had with my fundie brother where I feel I bested him in quote mining the Bible. It has since begun to turn into a Great Debate. I thought I would try to steer the conversation over here, since this is where it belongs.
In Genesis, there is a story about Abraham being asked by God to sacrifice his son Isaac to Him. Since he was a good God fearing man, he was prepared to obey. In the end God tells him to stop, that it was just a test. He then shows Abraham where he can find a ram that he is to sacrifice instead.
I suppose this is more a poll than anything else, but I feel it definately belongs here in GD rather than in IMHO. I invite all Christians, Jews, and Muslims to participate. Would you be willing to sacrifice your son if God commanded you to?
Why would I want to Obey a God who not only demands me to kill my own son, but also outright lies to me concerning his true motivations (And then tells me to kill a defenseless animal for the sake of his Ego)
And then I’d quote him “Thou shalt not kill” citing the Ten Commandments in proper APA style
I’m a non-believer, but if I were a believer, and if I were absolutely certain it was God telling me to do it, the kid would be toast. I’d expect to be reunited with him shortly in heaven.
I’m not going to do something that severe unless I know its right. Orders from a being that is beyond my comprehesion are no good: I know nothing about motives, have no way to judge the basis for it’s understanding of morality, anything.
Personal trust is a concept that, I think, is wrongly attributed to a being described as being like God is. We can trust other people because we have at least some limited understanding of them: their motives, their habits, their character, and also knowing what they have to lose if they break trust. We know, and cannot know, any of this sort of thing about the God of Abraham, since whatever we think about it could just as easily be a misunderstanding or misleading. Anything I think I know about it could be utterly wrong, and change instantly. So while I could develop the sort of trust of another human being enough to follow a seemingly immoral order without question, based on the idea that there was truly a greater good to come out of it, it’s not clear how I could go about trusting a being like a God, no matter how much experience I have with it.
Catholics, for instance, know that God committed adultery, assuming that sex out of marriage is adultery. Maybe not sex exactly, but the equivalent of sex.
I think the OP is trying to get posters to ask themselves if they actually believe in God or not. If you do, you should follow his commands. If you don’t follow his explicit* commands, then perhaps you don’t really believe. Isn’t that what this Bible story is telling us?
*the things he tells you to your face to do. not something that might have been gotten wrong in a book.
Same as what Diogenes the Cynic said, only make that his not mine.
I guess I should give a better answer. If there were no doubt that it was G-d telling me in person to do this, I would fail that test. I would give up eternal life before I would harm my child. Hopefully, I’d get another chance, because he does forgive you anything. And John Mace, I do really believe, but my life isn’t nearly as important as my child’s. I don’t think I could follow the command even if it were a stranger I was ordered to kill. I hate dry heat, too.:eek:
But I’d submit that if you wouldn’t whack the kid, then you don’t believe in God. For me it’s a pretty simple intellectual exercise. I don’t believe in God, so I’m not worried about actually having to do it.
I wonder how the rest of the Bible would have played out if Abraham had refused God’s command.
Since my concept of God does not include the possibility of asking for such favors, I would say no. I could not go against my own personal ethics to satisfy the needs of any being claiming to be God and asking me to do so.
Let’s assume this theoretical God does exist. Perhaps He’d really be testing me–do I live by my principles or just blindly obey authority? Then, I would fail the test if I was willing to do what he asked. On the other hand, if I were given a reason, like my child would cause the destruction of humanity by inventing some horrible biological weapon, then perhaps I’d think about it. But why couldn’t God, if He is truly all-powerful, just do it Himself?
Assuming God asked me to do this without giving a reason, I would definitely refuse. Even if I would be punished in Hell for not obeying the Tyrant, perhaps it would be worth it–why would I want to be in Heaven with him?
