An SDMB server walks into a bar. The bartender says, "Is this some kind of joke?"

I hope whoever makes these decisions is not thinking that older versions are always and necessarily the most stable. This has been the case for some software packages, especially when they increase the major revision number (from 3.x, say, to 4.0 - this usually indicates the authors introduced radically new features), and especially with certain Microsoft products.

It’s not always the case, however; in fact, it’s not the case in a large number of cases. Incremental new releases (from 3.x to 3.x+1, say) often include important bug fixes.

There is also another thing to consider; the old software could be bulletproof, but the old database server it relies on might not be. Even if a new version is used because its developers claim perfect compatibility, which is not often, various unexpected bugs often turn up when doing the ol’ version mix-and-match.

Please note I am not claiming total knowledge, I am just expressing the hope that what I described is not happening. I trust the sysadmins know best; it’s a thankless and tough job - I did it once! There could be very good reasons for not updating; losing the old content, for example, could be one.

Don’t hold your breath mate.

I just renewed my sub 'cos I don’t think the board is ever gonna go free

The outrage is only less because it happened at night for the US dopers. Grumble.

Like I said in the last thread, I don’t care enough to do anything about it (like write a letter of protest) but I also don’t care enough to pay the SD any more money in exchange for this ridiculous service. Oh well. If the SDMB can afford to continue to treat us like crap without it being a problem for them, more power to 'em, I say.

I don’t know much about changing software from two entirely different formats, but would going to phpBB or SMF be too much of a hassle?

XKCD switched to phpBB recently without any loss of content and I heard (emphasis on that word) that Randall didn’t mod it much at all and it runs great. SMF I’ve only seen on smaller boards, but the boards always run really well, and it had some pretty cool features (like an arcade and RPG systems for the Game Room that I think come with the package)

They can’t follow a simple upgrade path; there’s no way they’re going to switch software.

I find it incredibly hard to believe that there’s any sort of technical reason why we are stuck with an old version of the board software. Despite what numerous blow-hards say, an upgrade for such a small message board should take no time, if the admins are competent.

Message boards aren’t in any way complex, and there’s simply no reasonable excuse, other than laziness or incompetence, for why we’re stuck with such shit software. Couple this with the fact that it takes hours (days) for a problem that keeps reoccurring every few weeks to be fixed, you have to wonder what the fuck is going on.

An SDMB server goes into a bar and orders a beer.

The barman says ‘Sorry we don’t serve SDMB servers running out-of-date versions’ and throws him out.

A year later the SDMB server arrives in the bar again and says…
‘What did you do that for!’

As I understand it, the “technical” reason is that there is no technical staff. From time to time they can borrow Jerry if he is available and the admins ask nicely but it isn’t part of his real work and it shows.

I’ve kept quiet throughout most of the “WTF is wrong with these boards?” threads because I didn’t have anything constructive to add, and most of the outages were during US daylight hours when I was at work or asleep or generally not on the net. :wink:

But frankly I’m beginning to find it a bit… inappropriate that a board which charges money for membership still manages to have these outages. In fact, the ONLY other messageboards I’ve ever encountered on the net with server problems even close to what the SDMB has were the pre-Jolt NationStates forums, and they were A) Free and B) Switched to a more reliable and still free server some years ago.

Innumerable people have pointed out that running a messageboard costs seven-tenths of bugger all, and even large messageboards manage to operate Free of Charge using the same Google Ads that we have here.

What excuse does the SDMB have for still charging for something that’s clearly not up to scratch anymore?

As our friend from Bletchley Park :wink: also quite rightly points out, we were told there would be Free Posting some months ago. It’s now the latter part of August, and the silence is deafening. I think most of us have accepted it’s not going to happen anytime soon, but that doesn’t change the fact that something was promised, and not only has it not been delivered, but it feels like we’re greeted with a roll-eyes and a “Geez, are you lot still on about that?” whenever it’s bought up.

If I treated a customer at work the way we get treated here (ie ignored or told to just deal with the situation), I’d be fired before the day was out. Creative Loafing (or whoever The Powers That Be are now) need to realise that you just can’t run a messageboard for profit in and of itself anymore.

The SDMB is a marvellous resource and it has limitless potential to genuinely be one of the finest boards on the Internet (instead of the legend in its own living room that it currently devotes a lot of time to being).

The board has experts on every conceivable topic here, and is far better than Yahoo Answers in the depth and breadth of information available. We’re like a Victorian Social Club for the Internet, with a $15 membership fee and a porter that periodically wanders off instead of refilling everyone’s brandy glasses or serving the meals, and that makes me sad when I see what we could be, if only we could get the freaking boards working properly and get them sorted out.

Whistles
Sooooo… Sage Rat, you busy next weekend? Because… GRAB HIM! GRAB HIM AND GET HIM IN THE VAN! HE CAN MOD IT!

It’s not an issue with vBull. In fact, I’ve seen quite a few boards running even older versions of vB than we are AND are busier, but somehow manage to have far fewer problems. No, the problem is crappy system configuration and maintenance. I don’t know what version of MySQL they have running here, but I’d bet an update is needed there, too.

The SDMB server walks into a bar.

The bartender says, “Hey, did you know we have a drink named after you?”

The SDMB server looks at him, cocks its head, and stands there for a few seconds.

The bartender looks back. After a bit, he says, “I said, did you know we have a drink named after you?”

The SDMB server stands there silently.

The bartender says, “Hey, are you okay?”

The SDMB server says nothing.

The bartender shrugs, goes and serves another customer, then comes back.

The SDMB server is still standing there, quiet and motionless.

The bartender comes out from behind the bar. “Hey,” he says, going over to the SDMB server, “is everything okay?” He pokes the SDMB server in the shoulder.

The SDMB server doesn’t react.

“Fine,” says the bartender, “be that way.”

The bartender goes about his business. The SDMB server stands in the middle of the bar for the rest of the day, and eventually the bartender, occupied with other work, forgets about it.

At closing time, he stops next to the SDMB server, still standing like a statue. “You still in a coma?” he asks. No response.

He shrugs, locks up, and leaves.

The next morning, the SDMB server is still standing where he left it, unchanged. He taps it on the shoulder, verifies that it’s still nonresponsive, and opens the bar.

All day long, the bartender serves his customers as they go in and out. Every now and then, he glances up at the SDMB server; sometimes he says something, and sometimes he gives it a nudge. It continues to stand in the middle of the floor, deaf and blind to the world. Later that night, he closes up the bar, again leaving the server where it was.

This routine continues for days, stretching into weeks, then into months.

Outside, the neighborhood around the bar is changing. Property values are slowly beginning to rise, and businesses are changing hands as gentrification takes over. The bar’s owners look at the bottom line, and decide that it’s a good time to take advantage of the rising tide. They sell the bar to new investors.

During the inspection, the new owners notice the SDMB server standing in the middle of the room like a mannequin.

“What’s up with that?” they ask.

“Oh,” say the former owners, “it’s been there forever. Used to be a regular. Doesn’t seem to be doing any harm.”

“Mmm, okay, whatever,” say the new owners.

They shut down the bar for a couple of weeks to remodel. They swap out the plastic ferns and the Dukes of Hazzard pinball machine for plasma-screen TVs and pull-tab machines. They replace the antique taps behind the bar with new, non-leaky hardware. They retile the bathrooms and fix up the plumbing. They replace the neon “Modelo” sign in the window with one for a local microbrewery. They have the antique pool table refinished and resurfaced, and buy a new set of billiard balls to replace the collection of old and chipped balls that had been in use since the seventies.

Finally, they’re done. The bar’s facelift is complete, and they’re ready to re-open.

The night before, they’re admiring their handiwork, when they notice again the SDMB server still standing in the middle of the floor. They go over and look more closely at it.

“You suppose we should do something about it?” says one to another.

“I don’t know,” comes the response. “It’s sort of an institution. It isn’t really in the way, and it isn’t hurting anything. I’d hate to toss it out for no reason.”

“I know what you mean,” says the first. “It’s kind of nice to maintain a connection to the old place.”

The second nods. “Yep. There’s still a place for tradition, I guess.”

Then the SDMB server blinks and shakes its head. It looks at the two new owners, and it says, “You have a drink called Ass?”

phpBB has a lot of problems with security – more so than vBulletin – and it’s not as fully featured. SMF is okay, but I don’t know how it would scale up; it’s used on a lot of smaller sites, but not that common on larger message boards. The admin interface is also rough.

The two leading paid message board scripts are vBulletin and Invision Power Board (IPB). vBulletin is known for its security, flexibility, and expandability/plugins. IPB is known for a great admin interface and a more contemporary look.

~snicker~

I haven’t administered a vB board for a few years, but upgrading at the time wasn’t as easy as it should be. All custom mods have to redone after the upgrade, because they get wiped out down to defaults. They might have to be done differently due to other software changes in the upgrade. You have to carefully document all changes (and there could be hundreds) before and implement them after.

It’s a good reason why boards don’t upgrade at the drop of a hat.

Some thoughts…at this point our problems might be due to one or more than one of these factors, and if the admins know which one(s), they’re not telling:[ol][]vB version[]vB, internal coding quirks or bugs regardless of version[]SQL version and/or bugs[]Server system software[]Server hardware[]Size of database[][]Size of posting crowd or membership list[]Incompatibilities between hardware & software[]Sabotage[/ol]

I wouldn’t know a slow board from a fast one, but that’s some funny shit, Cervaise. :smiley:

This go round, I’m taking the stance of, “stay or go, but quit yer bitching.” We all know what the problems are; I’m staying because the good outweighs the bad at this point. We each make our own decision on that, and these threads contribute nothing (except some good jokes. At least this one is.)

None at all, i’m afraid.

I was simply pointing out to Sage Rat that, if he’s going to defend the SDMB for being “hostage to the…software,” it does not help his argument that the software version is about 4 years out of date.

I don’t claim to be an expert on vBulletin. All i know is that much larger boards than this, and plenty of free boards, manage to run vB without sucking as much as this one does. Also, while some other vB boards are sometimes slow to load, or are imperfect in other ways, the SDMB seems to get problems that i’ve never seen on any other vB board, and it gets those problems on a regular basis. I just don’t understand why such frequently-recurring problems can’t be fixed.

We don’t get the miniature giant space hamsters out of sympathy until we reach level 3 spam technology and at LEAST level 7 bad grammar and spelling due to various bureaucratic red tape issues.

We were trying to evolve some of our own, but every time we tried everyone complained in thread titles…

Everyone should do what I did and send an actual letter to the Chicago Reader’s headquarters. This will accomplish much more than just talking about it on the boards. If everyone here sent a letter to them, believe me, they’d get the message.

I don’t think the SDMB has any mods. I think it’s stock vB 3.0.7 with simple custom graphics, and Trebuchet in place of the default Verdana.

Updating a vBulletin site now is very easy, even with mods. Mods are in the form of plugins, which are usually unaffected by upgrades. Seasoned message board operators won’t install mods that require changes to the vBulletin code, which would still be wiped out with an upgrade.

Upgrades do take a while to do right; backing up the old database, and chruning through rather large database as tables are added and deleted, and data moved around. This could take a while; when the upgrade script is run, changes to the database don’t just jump from the 3.0.7 version to 3.7.2, but rather from 3.0.7 to 3.0.8 to 3.0.9 to 3.0.10 to 3.0.11 to 3.0.12 to 3.0.13 to 3.0.14 to 3.0.15 to 3.0.16 to 3.0.17 to 3.5.0 to 3.5.1 to 3.5.2 to 3.5.3 to 3.5.4 to 3.5.5 to 3.5.6 to 3.5.7 to 3.5.8 to 3.6.0 to 3.6.1 to … you get the idea. The scripts can be upgraded from 3.0.7 to 3.7.2 immediately just by overwriting; the database, not so fast.

The board might be shut down for several hours while this happens. Because the SDMB is so far behind the current version, an upgrade will take much longer and be more tedious than if the site was just kept current; at every step in the upgrade, the admin must press a “proceed” button and wait; there’s several proceed points for every version upgrade, which means that Jerry will probably be pressing “Proceed” about 150 times or more in an upgrade from 3.0.7. An upgrade that would take minutes if the board was properly maintained and updated through the years will probably take several hours for the SDMB, and like I said the upgrade script isn’t a simple “run it and forget it” affair. I think most users would understand, though.