I notice you skipped over the parts where you said (bolding by me)
“What really bothers me is what is implied if astral projection exists. If we can see, feel, think and move without use of our physical bodies(apparently better than we can with our bodies!), then that would mean that our brain cells, eyes, nervous system and for that matter, our entire body is of no use to us whatsoever and in reality serves no actual purpose. In fact, it would mean that we would never have developed a body in the first place. Either our body functions the way we currently understand it to function, and we need brain cells to think, eyes to see, nerves to feel, and muscles to move, all wrapped up in a physical body, or we don’t.”
and
“We’re not talking about an appendix or an extra nipple here-if astral projection is real, our entire body is redundant.”
Are you still claiming all that?
As for your eyes/astral projection/evolution theory, I find it difficult to see what you mean.
Are you saying that because a couple of present-day posters claim an astral viewing ability, that:
astral viewing must have existed billions of years ago
all our evolutionary ancestors had it
astral viewing is so reliable that we don’t need an alternate visual system
therefore humans would never have developed eyes?
I can discuss this further, if I’ve stated it correctly above.
Yes indeed.
And I look forward to Cityboy196 and Gremlyn doing the test.
Well I’m running a test to see if these claims hold up. (smug)
So it’s certainly not taboo to demand proof for extraordinary claims. (Who said it was?)
I prefer to do it politely, especially to newcomers, but that’s just my style.
(You mention ‘strongly’ demanding. I do have, as does Czarcasm, past evidence that some claimants will leave if continually insulted. Hard to see how that contributes to fighting ignorance.)
I have asked you before, and I ask you again. Please do not misquote my words. I said that in the past claimants have claimed that those who continue to question their abilities are “insulting” them, and that they use this as an excuse to abandon the test they originally agreed to in the first place. Questioning and challenging those who make fantastic(if not impossible) claims is NOT insulting them. To make such claims and then act indignant when challenged is insulting us.
Czarcasm, I’m not going to back away from the test, I’m going to do it even though cityboy was the original… ‘test-ee’… so mabey we should ask him if it’s okay before I click “Send” on this email to the mod.
Grem
On another note, I’m sorry for calling IWLN what I did, it was indeed childish and uncalled for.
Oh and The Great Unwashed… put up or shut up? Geez… you make me feel all doity…
Please, take the test. I would be delighted that finally someone is stepping forward and putting their money where their mouth is. Pass or fail, at least you would be showing more guts than the other thousand or so that came before you.
Oi vey IWLN… beans… I had beans & cornbread for dinner tonight… my ulcer is not very happy. Mabey I used too much salt or something another.
My email is sent to David, btw.
So in other words, all the experiences we have in our lives, all the joy, the sadness, the pain, all the things we learn from our brief Earthly existences, are irrelevant since we can get all those things from the astral state? Do you really mean to imply that if AP exists and is not strictly a process of the brain, then life itself is meaningless?
:dubious:
I, for one, do not believe life is meaningless. My belief is that we are here for the purpose of living: interacting with others instead of (or in addition to) passively observing. What would be the sense of observing if there was nothing going on but random natural events? Look at all we would miss out on with human interaction (e.g. message boards ;)) and so forth. I refer back to the anecdote I gave of the woman who tried to move an object (vase, IIRC) while projected - she succeeded but just barely. If that anecdote is true, then we need our bodies to physically affect matter.
Not necessarily, becuase proteins and DNA came into existence billions of years ago in Earth’s primordial soup. A lot of competing self-perpetuating chemical reactions are thought to have existed and by definition, one survived. That’s where our bodies came from. It’s been perpetuation of species ever since, and conscious or not, capable of AP or not, life seeks to sustain itself generation after generation.
That’s a gross oversimplification. AP occurs most easily when the body is asleep and the mind is awake. However that is accomplished physiologically and chemically. Simply going to sleep does not in itself consistently produce AP in anyone, even me.
On preview, I’ve been meaning to ask but kept forgetting… what exactly does chili have to do with AP or LDs? It’s been mentioned here twice; could somebody clarify?
I’m sorry if you feel I misquoted you. Let me try again.
As I understand it, you believe that some people who make extraordinary claims decline to back them up and use the excuse ‘they were insulted’ to avoid the test.
I believe that some claimants are genuinely upset and leave for that reason alone.
So whether either (or both) of us are right, it makes sense not to insult claimants, since the result is no test.
Instead we (politely - it is Great Debates as well) insist they prove their claims.
Chili, chili with beans, and especially hot chili with more beans, is often assumed to be a contributor to intestinal upset in people, leading to nightmares.
So it is the suggestion of some that the root cause of odd brain activity during sleep is more likely tomatoes and hot peppers than anything supernatural.
Personally, I consider it “dream enhancement.” What can I say – I live on the edge. :eek:
Does that clear up the mystery? See, I didn’t have to reach into the paranormal for an explanation.
Uh, I think you had to reach into some place a lot more “special” for that.:rolleyes: The beans referred to the last couple of times are on glee’s desk. Back to the paranormal for that explanation. Anything else to add Musicat?
No, you said you are conducting an experiment. You don’t want any demands for evidence for fear of scaring off the doe-like Astral travellers test subjects. You don’t want a debate, you want people guessing objects for a year while you decide if they’re close enough. Bleh.
This seems a little unfair; if glee had been offering any kind of feedback and people were allowed multiple guesses, then ‘guessing until they’re close enough’ might be an appropriate sumnation.
But that isn’t what’s happening here; we’re just waiting for the two test subjects to submit their lists.
We may have a long wait (or wait forever) and the results may well be vague and open to wild interpretation/rationalisation/etc. but it isn’t as if the OP’s position has changed much since page 1.
Yes Mangetout, a tad on the bitchy side I was. Also, I know (or am under the impression) that the myriad of guesses is for the “control” so how close they are is only partially the point. And I certainly would not accuse glee of not providing polite feedback. But:
It just doesn’t seem like a real debate is here. If the thread had been “what would constitute a valid test” or “what have tests to date shown us” then I could see this going somewhere. It seems we are meant to ignore the innumerable failures in this area.
I’m not against people trying it out again, I just think this thread is way on the whimsical side for GD. Look how you describe the thread with your last two sentences, does that sound like a debate to you?
