I wasn’t sure where to put this.
It certainly isn’t ‘mundane’ if we possess a paranormal power.
It’s not a ‘question’, it’s a test.
I don’t want the language of the Pit.
As for ‘innumerable failures’ of remote viewing, could you provide links?
I wasn’t aware of anyone offering to try (cityboy + gremlin are the first ever to respond, on this or other boards I frequent.)
Oi!
I already posted about how some previous claimants have dropped out because of taunting.
Yes, cityboy has made a dramatic claim.
Yes, this is just an informal test.
But do not drive away the first person ever to take such a test.
Set up your own thread and see how many applicants you get!
I know it’s a long time. But it’s up to cityboy to make the next move.
David B. is the judge, not me.
He tells me that Gremlyn was wrong, without giving details.
We agreed that no specific results would be released, since it would affect cityboy, who is the original claimant.
Um, I have to challenge your vocabulary! :eek:
I don’t know of any successful AP, so how can you say ‘actual AP’ or ‘real AP’?
Gremlyn states they were from a ‘real’ AP event.
Since she was wrong, how can this be a ‘real’ AP event?
What other ‘source’ do you know of?
Are you saying there are ‘imaginary’ AP events?
Um, the observed fact is that people state they have experienced an altered state (no pun intended).
This may be a paranormal effect, or it may be a dream, or an hallucination.
Is there, for example, any scientific observation of altered brainwave patterns of people ‘astrally projecting’?
We have observed red cars, but not observed AP.
And I’m back! (I needed to overcome my reluctance to pay for anything on the Web. But the SDMB is just too 
)
We do agree on the test. After all this time, the stuff is still on my desk. (You may assume that no food is involved! :smack: )
Carry on.
Then I should have asked if they were from an event where Gremlyn felt a floating sensation and had vivid perceptions of specific objects. It sounds like they were.
Whether the AP event was real or not depends on the definition of AP. If AP is defined as a relocation of some nonphysical or paranormal part of the person, then we have no evidence to assume that it was. If, however, AP is defined as that state where a person believes themselves to be floating and has the perception of being somewhere else, then we have every reason to assume that is what Gremlyn meant when she said it was a real event.
I’m not clear then on what “observed” means… I was under the impression that having such an experience qualified as an observation that it exists.
Well, define “dream”. Other than that, I agree with you.
I don’t know.
Okay, then an observation must involve some kind of recorded data and/or be available to more than one person, and also to be reproducible? Is this the difference between empirical data and anecdotes?
Good to have you back! 
Well Gremlyn said she was using AP.
I quarrel with your use of ‘real’ though. If Gremlyn was in an AP state, yet got the contents of my desk wrong, how is this ‘real’?
I see you define AP as ‘that state where a person believes themselves to be floating and has the perception of being somewhere else’.
Fine. But there is no evidence that the person is actually somewhere else. And to me the use of the word ‘real’ implies that the person really is somewhere else.
I am certainly happy that people dream and hallucinate (I have personal anecdotes not suitable for a family audience!), and that such experiences include ‘where a person believes themselves to be floating and has the perception of being somewhere else’.
It depends what your final ‘it’ means!
There are plenty of UFO observations. We all agree that people claim to have observed UFO’s.
But there is no evidence that these UFO’s are aliens.
Intoxicated people claim that they observe e.g. rats are crawling over their body. They look terrified, so I believe them. But nobody else thinks the rats are real.
Dream:
Yes, and it’s the basis for all science!
Gravity, Space Flight, the Internet, the human gene sequence and the explanation of farting all use reproducible observations under scientific conditions.
Thanks!
This is worth $14.95…
Finally I hereby put you on notice that you have a total of one year to investigate my desk astrally.
(My Mum is getting slightly suspicious about why my cleaning lady is not allowed in the room… :eek: )
However, for some reason, this tidy bit of research keeps being ignored whenever I mention it. I wonder why?
It seems that that article is talking about people experiencing the illusion of astral projection after electrical stimulation.
Ah…the *illusion/i] of astral projection. As opposed to what? The real thing?
I interpret the Nature article as definitive, reproducible proof that “Astral Projection” is indeed just that…an illusion, caused by neuronal activity in a specific part of the brain.
Or have I just been whooshed?
But at least it establishes that there is something going on in the brain when people have these experiences. Furthermore, notice that the patient was awake during the event. This is significant, because it establishes that a dream state is not required for an experience of the type attributed to AP.
Certainly strong evidence for that conclusion. The article concedes that it does not disprove the “paranormal”, however.
I think we are getting terminology mixed up though, because we have 1.) an extraordinary type of experience that has been documented and 2.) a theory that some kind of “astral body” actually changes its location - these are very different concepts but somehow they’ve both been stuck with the label AP.
Fair enough. For my purposes, however, article 1 (above) is sufficient, and has the advantage of not requiring an “astral body” or “soul” which defy definition, let alone any sort of metrics. It is logical, consistent, verifiable, and repeatable (presumably). Zap a couple of more people under suitably controlled conditions- if they all report a similar experience, “case closed” as far as I am concerned.
Theory 2 has none of these attributes, but relies on handwaving, definitions of convenience, and shoddy science. Why anyone would abandon the former in favor of the latter is totally incomprehensible to me.
Why is a non-dream state significant? There was no evidence of actual projection. All this means is that people can be put into a type of ‘daydream’.
It is rather difficult to disprove paranormal claims. However if nobody can produce a paranormal effect, there is no reason to believe in such things as AP … (hint!)
I think that since the documented effect is just a hallucination that can be produced at will, it doesn’t need the label ‘Astral Projection’. there is no real projection.
So ‘Astral Projection’ should remain as a description of a paranormal claim.
Nothing to report, I’m afraid.
Except my mother wants to know why my computer room hasn’t been cleaned for months.
I’ll try to fend her off, but it looks like there may be a slightly early end to this test. :eek:
This thread has been going since December third of last year, and you think this is an early end??
Who’s flakier, a guy who claims to be able to ‘astrally project’ or a guy that doesn’t clean his room for almost a year in order to debunk the claim?
Debate.
I’ve been rereading the thread, and I take your point (made much earlier) that there have been many claims of paranormal powers which all then failed to materialise.
I just wanted to find someone who would actually have a go at testing their powers, so I have been rather defensive throughout about any possible postings which might drive cityboy away.
I hope I haven’t offended you (or anyone else) while doing so.
Anyway I have enjoyed this thread and I will keep the objects on my desk as long as possible.
But it is disappointing that cityboy hasn’t projected in 9 months.
to you too.
Look, I didn’t specify a time limit at the beginning of the test. (Musicat prophetically said this would prove a problem.)
Having agreed the rules, I didn’t want to change them mid-test and thus perhaps drive cityboy away.
I have literally waited years for someone to offer to demonstrate psychic powers to me, and not cleaning one room of my extensive mansion seems a small price to pay.
I’ll say. I’m an old fart and I still project a couple of times a week.
Is it too soon to say, “I tole you so, I tole you so”? 
I’ve seen Cityboy916 on the boards recently. I think I bumped into him in the hall, or saw his face across a smoky room, muttering, “XYZZY.” Perhaps he is too busy to AP his ass onto Glee’s dusky, dirty desk?
Let’s divide up the remaining money, buy a keg and have a bash. I’ll even pour CB a glass. No projection, but no hard feelings. Nothing left but true reality. What say?
Then you can clean your room. Your mama will appreciate it, I’m sure.