An unapologetically opinionated gaijin's analysis of Grave of the Fireflies

Cafe Society
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Like for most “essential” or “must see” movies (Rocky Horror Picture Show was another), I was really late to the party on this, even though I knew I’d have to watch it someday. I’ve never been a huge movie person; my first few Blockbuster Video trips took an eternity, and I haven’t been to a theater in ages. But when the time is right (and I have the time), I’ll rent it and watch, if only to see what the whole fuss was about.

Anyway, I haven’t decided yet whether to review this. There honestly isn’t a whole lot to argue, and while I was moved (though not quite as much as you might expect), there just isn’t much in it that I feel extremely compelled to opine on. War is hell, it’s a tragedy when children die, there’s plenty to criticize about Japanese culture, fireflies are pretty; does anyone really need me to say it? (By comparison, I was hammering out my scathing review of 300 almost the moment the credits started rolling. On IMDB if you’re interested.)

So for now, just my observations, and maybe a few argument starters. I trust that you don’t need spoiler boxes, right? Good.

Re. the anime style
I honestly don’t see what the big deal is. No, this isn’t like a mecha anime or a magical girl anime or a racing anime. As with every other form of entertainment on the planet, no two kinds are exactly alike. (I also find the idea of “big eyes” really puzzling, as there are far, far bigger eyes in titles like The Melancholy of Haruhi Suzumiya, and that’s just the standard.) It’s simple, but it also doesn’t pull any punches (nb. the horribly injured mother, which I’m amazed didn’t bump this up to a PG). It’s the perfect setting for peaceful water, lush greenery, and lots and lots of fireflies. Worked for me.

Re. Seita being a selfish jerk and Isao Takahata’s comments etc.
First off, I don’t buy for a second that Takahata actually expected massive waves of moviegoers to condemn Seita’s actions (unless he’s a clueless moron, which he certainly doesn’t come across as). I find his comments on the DVD especially insincere: Lots of predictable arglebargle about perservering and not making bad choices, followed by a warning that doing the same can result in death. Uh, yeah, sure, if Japan ever gets into another world war, we’ll keep that in mind. Sheesh.

It’s very clear to me that Seita is just trying to make the best of a horrible situation. Look, he’s not allergic to work. There aren’t any jobs available. He’s not living the high life, and let’s not forget that the aunt took from HIM almost the moment he arrived. He had to go; there’s no way he, Setsuko, and his aunt’s immediate family could continue living together. Faced with a choice between increased misery and hostility and a pretty good chance of slowly starving to death anyway, and the opportunity to live his own life and make the best of it as possible…well, I don’t see any reason to condemn him. Of course, I wasn’t looking for one to begin with.

Re. the aunt
I really, really want to bring her up, because I think that nearly everyone completely missed the boat here.

She’s not evil. Nor is she a paragon of “gaman” or whatever junk. (And a huge raspberry to whoever turned her into a metaphor for “The West”.) Note the first meeting with her new guests. She’s friendly and jovial, and she’s grateful for the generous bounty Seita brings…in short, a perfectly normal, healthy human being. Then when she learns of her sister’s death, we see the first signs of trouble. She should know that it’s not nice to traumatize a 5-year-old girl, and getting indignant about is just silly. But that’s as far as it goes. Then, the big turning point, where she starts grumbling about her guests not contributing to the war effort, begrudging the rice which Seita brought home (which she showed immense gratitude for), and then slamming the door by demanding that the guests do their own cooking. And THEN, when they comply, grumbling that they’re “spiting” her.

This is a woman who is slowly but steadily and inexorably losing her mind. It’s not hard to see why; having to pawn off nearly everything of value she owns, never knowing where the next meal is coming from, and all under the constant specter of fiery death. It’s an immense burden for anyone to take, and having two more mouths to feed certainly doesn’t help.

Note too when Seita decides to leave. What would a normal caregiver do in such a situation? Try to talk some sense into them, most likely. Maybe give a tearful farewell speech. Beg. Plead. Or on the other hand, celebrate, give a parting blast, or berate them for taking the easy way out. She does…nothing. She’s so drained of humanity at this point, she doesn’t even know how to react. She’s as much a victim as Seita and Setsukio even if she has slightly more control over her destiny.

On a related note, you can make an interesting parallel with the farmer. Sure, you’d expect him to be upset, maybe give some stern warnings or a good lecture on the way to the police house. Or else he’d be compassionate, explaining that he means no harm but that stealing is still wrong. The white-hot rage of the farmer, followed by a beating…that’s not normal behavior. That’s a man twisted by the endless pressures of war to the point where the smallest little thing can set him off.

(I’m not the only one who noticed all this, am I?)

Re. Japan’s role in WW2
I’ve read some criticism about how this movie made light of the many atrocities committed by Japan in WW2 and attempts to cast Japan as the victim. It’s an understandable viewpoint, just not a very good one. These people are victims; that’s the whole point. The whole point of the bombing campaign was to break Japan’s morale, and as effective as it may have been, it resulted in many, many innocent victims. And yes, nearly everyone is patriotic, but no more so than you’d expect out of a loyal citizen in a time of war. (“Long live the Emperor!”) In any event, after Seita had witnessed the destruction of his entire community and the death of his mother by American bombers, and especially with his father in the Navy, expecting him to be anything other than a good subject wishing victory over the Allied invaders is a tad ludicrous.

Re. tragedy, saddest movie ever, can’t bear to watch, etc.
Well, everyone’s going to react differently (as some really dumbheaded IMDB reviews attest to), but personally, I thought it was…well, uplifting. It was full of misfortune, of course, but I don’t really consider this a tragic movie. Tragedy would be Seita forever lamenting his choices and loyalties in life, Setsuko cursing her fate, the aunt being wracked with guilt/turning her madness on her daughter, etc. A tragic ending is one where things go wrong.

The ending has Seita quietly sending off his sister. He doesn’t cry. We’ve seen him cry before; we know he’s not an unfeeling clod. He doesn’t cry because he knows that, with his love, with his guidance, his sister had as good a life as was possible under their hideous circumstances. And soon after, he can be with her forever, with no more hunger, pain, misery, resentment, or suffering.

He’s so happy and content, in fact, over three decades after the fact, he hasn’t passed on. He has his sister, the fireflies, and natural beauty. Heaven can wait.

I’ve seen an unbelievably tragic ending. That would be the last OAV for Kimugure Orange Road, which honest to god gave me nightmares. Grave of the Fireflies’ ending is…well…downright happy. In any case, you definitely wouldn’t look out of place applauding (this is a masterpiece, after all).

Anything else anyone wants to argue, be my guest. Please, no symbolism arguments. Believe what you will, okay? :smiley:

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Happy? You thought that ending was happy?! Geez, dude.

I think that the only way to watch a movie where two innocent children starve to death and say it was a happy ending is to really believe in an afterlife, which I don’t, because I’m an atheist. So, any death is a tragedy because their lives are over. Completely over, before they began. There is no succor in fantasy. They aren’t together again, they are eternally separated. :frowning:

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I was really looking forward to Grave of the Fireflies but found it a bit… underwhelming.
I did feel the ending was tragic but I wasn’t even moved to tears.
Maybe the hype about it being the saddest movie ever hardened me before seeing it.
I agree with your review except the bit about the ending, it certainly wasn’t uplifting, just not as tragic as I expected.

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I have heard that they’ve done a live action movie in Japan that focuses on the aunt’s story. I’d really like to see it.

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I agree with many of your points, especially about the aunt, but I can’t follow you here. The novel’s author, Akiyuki Nosaka, is still alive, but Seita, the character he based on himself, is dead. From what I understand, the author was so guilty about his actions and how they contributed to his sister’s death that he killed off his character. I think the ending of the anime is doubly tragic, in that Seita is responsible for his sister’s death, but that he probably did make the best decisions he could have been expected to make.

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You seem to be referring to a few other reviews, or something (“gaman”, “the west”, etc.). Do you have links to them?

Anyway, I thought he did cry. I guess I’ll have to watch it again.

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meenie7 - Hey dude, I’ve seen horrendous tragedies in anime, including a few titles where it was utterly inappropriate (thank you, hideously butchered Shinnosuke story Ranma 1/2 OAV… :mad: ). The common threads in all of them are great loss and hope forever destroyed. This isn’t the case here because the great loss and crushed hope already happened. Again, look at Seita’s expression when he lights the funeral pyre. He knew that this was coming…if not today, then in a week, or two weeks, or half a year. He’s long ago accepted the inevitable and has no more tears to shed. That’s pretty much how I see it too. The sadness is knowing that they’re going to die (which we learn from the very beginning). When it finally happened, I…I felt for them, yes, but I didn’t see it as any more of a tragedy than how they got to that point.

And whatever you believe, within the context of this movie, these kids do exist as ghosts and were reunited. Admittedly, the final shot is a tad ambiguous, so we don’t know if they’ve been prevented from passing on, they’re haunting the outskirts of Kobe out of resentment, or they’re just glad to exist and don’t feel like going anywhere yet, but I definitely did not get any vibe of sadness from that final scene…again, the sad parts already happened. (And the city is alive and vibrant; that certainly is no tragedy!) Maybe “happy” isn’t the right word, but it’s definitely a positive ending, and yes, I’m sticking by “uplifting”. Just callin’ 'em as I see 'em.

xnylder - I’ve heard this story numerous times, and after actually watching the movie, I’m convinced that either he’s not being entirely honest, or the idea just didn’t come across very well in the story. I think Isao Takahata’s DVD comments are really telling. His whole criticism of Seita boils down to 1. “You gotta perservere, because if you perservere, you can perservere through anything, and people have perservered through worse perserverence situations, perservereance perserverance perserverance.” 2. “Kids these days, grumble grumble.” 3. “You were supposed have an extremely hostile reaction and display no sympathy whatsoever! What kind of Japanese are you, anyway?” There’s NOTHING here. I’ve listened to sumo wrestler victory interviews that had more content.

Again, if Seita is supposed to be an egotistical brash arrogant stubborn prideful self-centered jerk, why isn’t this more obvious? (Hey, you seen Haruhi Suzumiya? :smiley: ) And for that matter, why make his actions far more justifiable with the death of his mother and the slow poisoning of his aunt? I’m sorry, but this just doesn’t wash. I have no trouble belieiving that a lot of anime reviewers are parroting what they’ve been told without giving it much thought. Ask anyone familiar with Initial D or Battle Royale. This is far from uncommon.

Viridiana - I got that clumsy “aunt = The West” metaphor from an IMDB review. Don’t remember which one, but it’s near the end with the default “Best” sort, so it shouldn’t be too hard to find. As for “gaman”, this word generally translates to “perserverance”, from the aformentioned DVD commentary.

He cries a few times, but not at any point of the cremation.

everyone - Well, I guess I’ll be writing a review after all. Probably the easiest review I’ve ever done, but what the heck, I gotta show that I was paying attention. :slight_smile:

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I really can’t say in this forum what I think of you for thinking that’s an uplifting ending. I mean, holy crap, man.

The final scene is a fantasy, but it’s not enough to soothe over the preceding story. I’m sure the man who wrote the book would have liked to think his sister was skipping around the spirit world playing with fireflies, but IT’S ONLY IMAGINARY. She is really dead, there is no such thing as ghosts, and it’s a fantasy. Therefore, it’s the worst kind of tragic ending, where people try to scab over wounds that can’t be repaired with imaginary garbage.

This movie was the only film I’ve ever watched that actually made me feel panic and despair. I watched it once and then had to throw the DVD away because everytime I saw it on the shelf, I felt sick for a hour. It was like torture. I don’t understand how someone could draw hope from any part of it.

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Whose fantasy is it? The only people who would care enough about these people to imagine them dead are themselves dead. No, I think it’s meant to show that in the reality of the film, the afterlife exists and these two find piece together in it.

Not that this makes it a happy ending. It’s like sending flowers to a very sick person. Or a band-aid with Dora the Explorer on it. It’s meant to take the edge off the tragedy. And it is still a tragedy.

To DKW: Hmm… That’s an interesting theory on the aunt. I disagree on the farmer though. I didn’t see him as insane so much as it was OK in that time and place to give corporal punishment to kids and that he was desperate enough to really be upset by the theft.

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It’s not an invalid viewpoint. Civilian populations were intentionally targeted by the US, causing much unnecessary suffering. But if you get enough exposure to Japanese society and media, you’ll get damned tired of the repeated perspective of Japan as an innocent victim in WW2, with no more acknowledgment of militarism than a vague nod to “we must always peace in future”. That’s where these criticisms are probably coming from.

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I didn’t mean anyone’s fantasy in the world of the film. Just a general societal fantasy, like a lot of ghostly portrayals…something that staves off the terror of death. For someone like me, who very much rejects those fantasies, a story like this is near-impossible to deal with.

Your second paragraph is very apt, and reflects my feelings. I understand the need to soothe one’s soul in situations like those, and I do it too, but in the situation portrayed in this movie, the only thing that would have eased the pain would be to have them come back to life, find that their dad has come home safe from the war and live as a family again, with at least a chance of being happy again.

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Chalk me up to being underwhelmed, too.
After hearing people around me say “It’s the most depressing movie ever!” “You’ll want to die after seeing it!” and blah blah blah, etc etc, I wasn’t particularly impressed with the movie. Same graphics as the usual anime movies, yes. A bit sad, yes. Another Studio Gibli sibling-themed movie, yes. I just thought that with all the hype I had heard, it would be something spectacular and moving.

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meenie7 - So in other words, you’ve rejected the movie’s ending because it doesn’t jibe with your real-world theological outlook?

I’m sorry, but I really have no interest in carrying this argument any further.

Cosmic Relief - Oh, I can understand that viewpoint. I just don’t understand why anyone expects the movie industry to pick up the slack (especially a family-oriented company like Ghibli). Plus stories dealing honestly with wartime atrocities aren’t exactly an easy sell…note the firestorm obscure mangaka Hiroshi Motomiya got for his take on the Nanking Atrocity.

Anyway, Grave of the Fireflies made an excellent point, that the weakest and lowest always suffer the most. It’s a valid POV even if we didn’t get to see comfort women or exterminated Chinese farmers. “When elephants fight, the grass gets trampled.”*

nikonikosuru - I think it’s simply the fact that it’s a couple of children and they’re helpless to avoid their fate. Personally, I defintely think it’s a melancholy story, but not incredibly sad; more like a numbing sense of hopelessness. (The real tragedy was losing their home and parents; everything after that was just the final twist of the dagger.)

Like I said, everyone’s going to react differently.

Man, now I really, really want to write that review. :slight_smile:

  • I’ve always wanted to use this. Don’t remember where it’s from…somewhere in Africa, IIRC.
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DKW, I just wanted to say thank you for your take on the aunt’s actions. When I saw the film, I only wished to crawl through the screen and whack her upside the head. But now I’m ashamed that I didn’t see her behavior for what it was. Indeed, I think you nailed it and I should’ve been able to grasp the depth of her character rather than assuming her a catalyst for what follows.

Good work.

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(Well, it’s probably too late for me to contribute anything meaningful to this thread that hasn’t been said before. But what the heck…)

Eh, don’t feel so bad. Crazy or not, some people’s behavior induces the desire for upside-head-smacking. Personally, I’d reckon you wouldn’t be entirely human if you didn’t feel like smacking the aunt to some degree.

And about ol’ Seita…sure, leaving the aunt was probably a bad decision on his part. That’s what I thought, when I saw the movie. Maybe it was pride, or just a simple (even justified) attempt at self-preservation in an increasingly abusive household.

But, in the end, the thing is…he’s just a kid. He’s not a crusading hero, he’s not even an everyman with a normal set of life experiences. He doesn’t have foresight as to how or when the war is going to end, much less the movie. Just a little kid in an intensely screwed-up time and place, probably not with the best upbringing to deal with the circumstances, with another life depending on him, and not a lot of help available.

Maybe the kids would have died, no matter what—of starvation, or a firebombing, or the aunt going gaga and chopping them into haggis. Maybe he screwed up, and both of them would have survived if they’d done a few things differently. With the benefit of hindsight, I can see or speculate the things Seita could or should have done differently—it’s kind of like shouting “don’t go in there!” at the hapless teenager in a slasher flick. In any case, I don’t feel like condemning the poor kid too harshly.