And the Jerk of the Year Award goes to...

The BBQ Pit
21

There is nothing wrong with myth and magic but the idea of Santa, the Easter Bunny and the Tooth Fairy are out and out lies.

It’s okay to let a child believe in things that are not available by the senses, I kind of said my stance in the posts in this thread.

It’s okay to allow a child to dream and think about things but for a mother and/or father to sit there and say “You have to be a good little kid or Santa wont bring you gifts.” This is wrong in so many ways I can’t believe it.

First off, Santa is a creature of our imaginations. Second, children are bribed into being good little children if they dare want presents from Santa.

Then, years later, a child finds out, be it through a teacher in this case or through their friends, it tells a child “I have been lied to all this time.” It’s not a lie that, even done in the sake of fun, is really all that good for children in my eye.

No, I am not scarred from it, I learned about it at some point but the expectations I had of my parents and the whole idea of Christmas were shot to hell.

Since I am not a Christian, I don’t even decorate anymore for the holiday. As for presents, because my family is Christian, I participate for the family and use it as a nice time to gather with my family and enjoy them. But to tell a child that Santa brings you gifts if you are a good little girl or boy is bogus.

Other than what I have said here, if you can’t understand it then you are on your own. It’s lying flat out. We teach our kids to tell the truth yet millions of parents tell their children this lie that they later learn is untrue. It’s no wonder that materialism is so rampant. I am a staunch capitalist but that doesn’t mean that I have to like the tactics of retailers all over the world to make a sale and for parents to perpetuate the lies, as innocent as they may be.

Wonder and imagination is so important to children but why not steer them to wonder and imagination of those things that can be realized, like science or fantasy of what the universe might be? Is it that terrible to have a child read a fantasy book? No, in fact I encourage it. But I don’t think that using made up figures like Santa really help kids in any way. It’s a big fat lie and that’s all there is to it.

22

Umm I think you’re more scarred from learning the truth about Santa than you admit… Just reread your posts carefully.

Here’s my point of view with Santa…

I loved my parents all the more for working so hard to make the ‘lie’ work. The feeling that there is someone out there other than your parents who thinks that you are nice enough to deserve a gift is a special thing to feel as a child.

23

He didn’t have to lie. He could have chosen to say nothing at all.
[sample conversation]
“Sir, what about Santa?”
“We’re not here to discuss Santa, Timmy, we’re here to talk about <insert different topic>”
[/sc]
If a teacher is unable to remain in control of the situation in a class full of 6 year olds, then he’s not very good at his job. Being fully aware that some people raise their children to believe in Santa, he should have chosen not to speak on the subject.

I would also suggest that an athiest teacher may dislike speaking about God to his students, but I would be unimpressed if he told them God didn’t exist. You could argue that an athiest thinks God is a lie, so he thinks Christians are lying to their children. The best thing that teacher can do is not speak out of turn, and leave it up to the student’s families. It’s not his place.

This is the crux of the matter. It doesn’t matter what you personally believe - each parent should have the right to choose for their child and their family. Some think it’s nice to give their children a sense of fantasy and magic about Christmas, others think it’s wrong to lie and decieve their children, but it doesn’t matter who is right or wrong - to each their own. What is their right is to have the teacher respect their beliefs and traditions and customs.

Finally, and this is a different debate, I’ve seen many people complain that modern Christmas is a bastardization of the religious holiday, and it’s commerical and cynical and has no real meaning. I wonder if they know how much joy some people take from Christmas, despite not celebrating the “proper” things. For me, Christmas is the one time of year I get to see my entire family, and share a meal and a laugh with them. I may not be Christian, but on Christmas Day I feel thankful for all that I have, and all those I love. I feel disappointed when people say the true meaning of Christmas has been lost, because I don’t care which religion started the tradition, or what it’s supposed to mean - to me, Christmas is a time of great joy, a family occasion. I don’t care that I’m “supposed” to be celebrating the birth of Jesus Christ and that people are exploiting the occasion to make money, Christmas has a different meaning to me, but it’s still special and it still means a lot - I may call it Christmas, but that doesn’t mean I have to celebrate it as a Christian holiday. It’s our family tradition to gather together, exchange presents and lie to small children about big fat men from cold places on December 25. And that’s our own special day, call it what you will.

24

CRorex,

Trust me, I am not scarred. I just think it’s a a lie that should not be perpetuated.

It’s that simple.

25

Am I the only person who never believed in Santa? I guess it’s mostly because my parents clearly didn’t make much effort to construct the myth, it was clear the presents came from them for several reasons (the gift tag said “from Mom and Dad”, in their writing, for one).

26

I did want to mention that I am Jewish, and my parents raised me the same as VS – I was specifically instructed that other kids beieved in Santa & I should respect that. But, even as a 6 year old, I just couldn’t believe that anyone would believe something so blatantly ridiculous. Hence, my debunking career started early.

I actually don’t think that the teacher should have discussed this in class – as a quasi-religious theme, it doesn’t really belong in a 1st grade discussion.

BTW, “jerk of the year” has already been awarded to the guy in Atlanta who broke security and closed the airport for 4 hours, just 'cause he forgot his camera and didn’t want to wait in line.

27

First of all, I see nothing that shows his employers forced him to tell the children Santa is real. He could have just kept his trap of a mouth shut.

I really miss those innocent days when I believed in Santa, leprechauns, and fairies in the forest.

My parents made those early years of childhood magical and I did the same for my kids. It is my personal opinion that kids and parents alike miss out on a lot when they don’t embrace the fantasy. A little something was lost from Christmas after my kids got older and found out Santa is not real.

No longer do we have the yearly trip to Santa village at the park to sit on his lap. No longer do I call my brother on the phone so they can talk to Santa. No longer do my kids run outside to look in the sky for Rudolph’s nose or watch the nightly news for reports of sightings. When we visit grandpa, no longer does he have the kids hide, shake the big sleigh bells, bellow “HO HO HO”, leave some presents under the tree then have the kids come out of hiding to see what was left. No longer do the kids bake cookies to leave on the Santa plate and then check Christmas morning to see if they were eaten.

Neither I nor my kids were scarred by this “lie” :rolleyes: but it sure made childhood a bit more special and a lot more fun. Once kids are old enough to know the truth, they are old enough to understand the difference between embracing fantasy and lies. I can’t wait until I have grandkids so I can play this game again.

The argument here IS NOT if parents should let their kids believe in Santa, the issue here is that it is the choice of the parent and not some dickwad of a teacher. I could give a flying rats ass whether other parents choose to tell the kids that Santa is real or if they play the fantasy to the full hilt. However, anyone who feels that they have the right to override a parents decision in what they chose for their own kids, is a total prick and damn lucky he wasn’t one of the teacher at my kid’s school.

28

This seems incredibly simple to me.

It doesn’t mess with kids’ heads to be told that Santa and the Easter Bunny are real. And it doesn’t mess with kids’ heads to be let in on the facts.

Does anyone really end up in therapy talking about the day they learned the truth about Santa?

Besides, I think that as children get older and wiser, they come to realize it on their own. But they continue to play along with it because it’s fun.

stoid

29

I agree with those that feel that the Santa story is harmless fun. For those that feel it is wrong - :rolleyes:. Why the rush to make kids into adults? They get 10 years of being able to believe in magic and Santa and the Easter bunny, the rest of their lives to live in a boring, mundane world. If you don’t want to tell kids the Santa story, I have no problem with that, but some of the objectors sound like they are outraged about the whole thing. It’s not a big deal.

I also agree with those who say WTF was this guy talking about Santa in the first place.

30

its because Santa is Satan…

The red, the black shiny hoofs, associating with unholy animals, keeping a slave race of man to do his bidding blah blah blah.

To bored to continue

31

In a word, yes. It is wrong to lie to children. It is wrong to tell them that things are real when they really or not. It is wrong because you are working against that child’s ability to discern truth from fiction and think logically. It is wrong because it is a lie. My parents never made any attempt to convince me that Santa was real (though my brother did, but he was an asshole, so I didn’t believe him). No “magic” of Christmas was spoiled for me. I still had fun with the fantasy and story of Santa Claus. Many parents seem to have this dangerous notion that children will not enjoy a story if they think it is untrue. We are doing a disservice to our children if we don’t teach them to enjoy fun stories and to seperate them from what is, in fact, reality.

32

I don’t think we have quite enough information yet to make a judgement. What, exactly, did the teacher say, and under what circumstances?

Anyway, the story seems to indicate that it was a substitute teacher. Remembering some of the stories I heard from substitute teachers in my school days, including the one who had survived the Bataan death march and the one whose husband had died in the bathroom at his own birthday party, I am inclined to reflect that schools have notorious difficulties finding good subs.

33

Is it always wrong to lie?

By the way, does my ass look fat in these pants?

34

No, your 11 year old nephew does not still believe, but wants you to think so. Don’t be daft.

I can’t see what the big deal is, this is about the age kids find out and the teacher told them the truth, probably in response to a question. What should the teacher have done? Lie? I understood at that age that Santa was probably not real (I don’t remember when I knew for sure), but I appreciated the spirit of giving much more once I really knew what it was all about.

BTW, I love the story about the little girl who said that Daddy couldn’t afford all of the gifts!

35

That depends, fat in a good “I’m not Christian Flockheart (skinny scary chick from that fox show (like I can spell her name)” sort of way, or fat as in “They canna take much more of this Captain (does his best scotty impression)”.

Fat comapaired to what? I mean there has to be some sort of emperical compairison between ‘normal’ and ‘fat’ with your ass in those pants.
This reminds me of a conversation I had with my ex-gf…

I get home from work and we head out to grab a movie and do some shopping. As we leave she asks a question about the shirt she’s wearing I think it was if the shirt and bra worked well together. I’m trying to frantically find the movie times and figure out where we’re going. I stop, look at her and say it looks fine. Which it does, she then asks so sort of question about if her bra is visible through the shirt (ie the bra is too dark i guess). But I’m trying to figure out where we’re going now and not really paying much more attention. But I assure her the she does look nice.
About 3 hours later she manages to see herself in a mirror and walks back with a funny look on her face.

spider sense tingles

“Why did you tell me my bra was showing?”

“You didn’t know that? Why else would you wear a light pink shirt with a dark purple bra? … paused to replay conversation and looks around at the other women in the mall
Umm, was the bra showing thing a good thing or a bad thing?”

(I knew totally ignoring pop culture would bite me in the ass someday) But in my own defense my best attempt at fashion is remembering pants in the morning (which is harder than you think). That and my tie buying. THERE IS NOTHING WRONG WITH THE TIES I LIKE! FUCK YOU ALL!

She just hangs her head and sighs.

spider sense fades

36

I’ve seen interviews with child psychologists who have said that Santa Claus is the only “acceptable lie” you should tell your children, and everything else really should be as true as you think they can handle (depending on their age). Even they don’t want you to take away every piece of childhood whimsy.

Esprix

37

I’m with Stoid here. We don’t do a huge Santa-thing here, but neither would I take it upon myself to debunk the beliefs of anyone else’s children.

Is it okay to lie to children? Depends, I think, on the situation. This is more along the lines of reading them bedtime stories, imo.

As far as truth goes, I am happy to protect them just a bit longer from the realities of the world. They have time enough when they are older, and they will deal with far more traumatic events than finding out about Santa, I’m afraid.

~k

38

Comeon people, its lying! No big deal, and you’re doing it you children, they can’t fight back.

If its YOUR children then you need to stop and think first, but if you’re just lying to children in general go to town.

We gotta spread more randomness and confusion out there.

I vote we make a new myth that children only get presents from santa if they drop a 1978 penny (which was found lincon side up on a sunny day 2nd or 4th wed of the month within 3 inches of the sidewalk) down the sewer drain. If they can’t do this, no presents.

39

To borrow from my dear Boris: Balderdash, sir! Tommyrot!

Not only is it not wrong to lie to children, it is absolutely imperative. Children do not need to be dragged into the realities of the adult world from the minute they are born . “Mommy, why did Daddy leave us?” “Well, Mary, since it’s wrong to lie to you, I have to inform you that your father never wanted children and he can’t handle dealing with a child, so he split. Now, don’t you feel better knowing the truth?”

Furthermore, to assert that telling kids about Santa Claus messes with their ability to think logically is perfectly ridiculous. A quick glance at the mountains of evidence around us will show that. Most kids in the last 100 years have been fed this story. Did most kids find it difficult to think logically? No. And for those that did, Santa certainly wasn’t the reason.

Get a grip. You’re just jealous cuz you got gypped! :smiley:

stoid

40

Garrison Keilor mode/
I believed in Santa for a while even after some kids at school tried to convince me that he didn’t-- they weren’t very smart, clearly. Eventually I came up with proof that he didn’t (I suppose as most kids do, snooping around and finding presents, or the Easter baskets in attic storage, you know). Then I had the terrible burden of not letting on to my parents that I knew because it would make them so sad and disappointed.
Meanwhile, another favorite family lie was that my dad personally knew a troll who kept a sack of children’s ears with him, although I can’t recall why he took their ears-- not eating vegetables or something. My dad showed my the bag, once (I still have no idea what it was I saw within the bag-- dried apples?). There was also a custom of either my dad or older brother donning a nylon hose over his head and popping up and looking into windows on dark rainy nights (I think this was supposed to be the aforementioned troll-- scared the shit out of me).
But these were all the minor, colorful lies that added spice to childhood and I don’t think I would have it the other way (as opposed to lies about paternity, what really happened to the cat, why your older sister really moved out, "we won the battle but we lost the war’, family relation to Chief Joseph, rarity and importance of the family surname, etc.). I can’t say I was heartbroken when I found out the truth about Santa, but when I did find out it was my own fault, however, and blamed only myself.