Angel 02/04/ 5x12 'You're welcome'

I disagree. The real Cordy was with Angel. The thing that died that was just her body, which was basically an empty vessel at that point because of her assention. She made it clear she was just allowed to visit this once by the PTB as an accommodation reached with Cordy. Once she had gotten Angel back on path and said her goodbye to him (sniff) there was no use in leaving her body around (especially after what happened with it last time :wink: ), so she turned it off like a light switch when you leave a room.

BTW: I agree, Cordy can beam in anytime (I would expect to see her for the Series finale, whenever that will be).

Also, two sterling episodes in a row. And the little bad taken care of, so the W&H plotline fully kicks in.

If I were Angel, I think I would be destroying that failsafe ASAP.

Two meta plot points that confused me a bit:

  1. Cordy was orginally shown as not enjoying the assended life (remember the puffy clouded “get me out of here” bit). Was that because of Skip’s machinations you think? And now that she truly assended (remember she was able to negociate to return this once directly with the PTB) I guess she is more happy with the result (her calm acceptance of her “path”).

  2. And the end of Season 2, Lindsey seemed to have resolved his issues with Angel (but not the firm). But the episode made it seem like Lindsey was more obsessed with Angel then with getting anything else. While the runes hid him, he really couldn’t take actual control over the firm or its assets as the Senior Partners and the rest of the FG would have prevented that. Plus, by killing Angel (if that was his plan) would have tipped off the Senior Partners. Remember Lindsey rightly feared their power, and was proven to be no match for them (without the hidey runes he got sucked up in 5 seconds). So what exactly was his end goal and why? For the life of me, I can’t figure out what exactly he was trying to do. Kill Angel- lots of easier ways of trying that. Get control over the firm- probably not going to happen because of the Senior Partners and the FG. Besides, he hated the firm. That’s why he left. Revenge against the firm? Pointless- the stone demon ravaged the place like he never could and they just rebuilt it nicer. So WTF was Lindsey trying to do?

:confused:

Well, it was definitely me falling for him during the spell. That man is hot when he works the mojo.

This episode felt like the best of Angel, as opposed to the rest of the dithering this season. I hadn’t realized how much I missed Cordelia. Hopefully, the writers and directors will get back on track for the rest of the season.

One plot hole that is a bit troubling was why Lindsey was obsessed w/ Angel. At the time he left to find himself, he and Angel had reached some understanding, the sign on the pickup not withstanding. Maybe he was harassed by cops somewhere along the way? :smiley:

For this episode to be a full success, they need to build on the “scales falling from the eyes” and have Angel and Co actually make some changes. No more defending nun-killers even if it upsets the Senior Partners. No more playing the status quo, they have to make changes.

One point that hasn’t been touched is Spike, having been played and tricked into believing that he was the one with a destiny, now has to find himself again. Why is he here and doing what he does? And what does he do, actually?

I think they’ll move forward with Fred/Wes based on that look she gave him during the spell casting. And Gunn’s mention of kicking ass probably will translate to him dealing with the brain insert from the black cat. Is he ready to rebel against his inner lawyer?

Finally, the reality change by W&H to allow Conner to live a normal life doesn’t have to make logical sense. We’ll probably never know what Wes and the rest of the gang really remember, but it doesn’t matter. All we know is it doesn’t include Conner, but the main events all happened. I can accept that, but I also predict that it will unravel at some point in the future.

I dunno, I don’t necessarily feel like Lindsey getting to see the Senior Partners face-to-face is necessarily a good thing. The whole thing felt machined to me - almost like it was Lindsey’s plan all along. What he’s planning to do once he with the Partners, I don’t know, but I don’t feel like he lost.

Favorite part of the ep? “Harmony, she’s talking!”
“She is? Crap.”
And Cordy started looking like a videogame heroine towards the end of the ep. Which is just damn fine with me.

Just watching Harmony repeatedly attack Eve made me happy. Fantastic episode.

This episode was great; I thoroughly enjoyed it. I only came back to Angel when Spike showed up on the show, so I missed much of the “Big Bad” stuff, but I feel now that the show is a lot better than it was when Joss was juggling two shows.

I love Harmony, she kills me. Spike as well. And I got misty eyed when Cordelia died.

I’m confused. What IS/WAS Lindsey trying to do? If he just wanted to kill Angel with a sword (METAL sword…through the heart?), why did he bother with the fake Shanshu prophecy, and playing Doyle to Spike’s helping the helpless? It seemed to me like this episode was a “oh crap, Christian Kane can’t do any more episodes (is he really gone?), so let’s write him out real fast.” I need to watch it again, but I hated what they did with Eve and Lindsay. I hope they make it all make sense, but I’m losing faith.

I do miss THAT Cordy, and I forgot how much I missed her until last night. The Doyle video was great too. The end was very touching. And I actually didn’t mind Harmony, but that’s probably only because she was beating on Eve.

What’s up with the promo for next week?

Next week we get to see Angel: 1941 or something. Another throwaway episode.

I’m really hoping that we haven’t seen the end of Lindsey. I mean, they build up “Who’s messing with the FG?” all season, they leave with revealing him at the end of November Sweeps, only to kill/get rid of him three or four episodes later? I don’t buy it.

By the way, have you EVER seen more spectacular cleavage than what Charisma Carpenter had last night? Now I remember why I used to obsess over her.

Things seem kinda rushed in this ep. I think the episode would have worked better if Lindsey was not involved and had some other conflict by which Cordy could have helped return Angel’s self-confidence.

However, it was still a heartbreaking way to see Cordy go. At least they got to be with each other one last (and first) time.

I liked this show a lot, though I agree that there are some niggling inconsistencies that will either go away if the last part of the season turns out to incorporate them all brilliantly or that will need to be glossed over if the last part of the season doesn’t address them.

Favorite bit: Angel, to Harmony, re Eve: “If she tries anything, eat her.” Harmony, joyfully: “Really?” :smiley:

I am glad I didn’t read anything about this episode before I saw it. The end took me by surprise (and that doesn’t happen very often). I thought the episode was great. They do need to stop whinning about the “grey area” they are in at WH and start doing something about it.

Favorite Line (hope I got it right)

Angel: I can’t take anyone I care about down there.

Spike: I’ll go.

Angel(quickly): OK

The last bit was the best acting I have seen on the show. DB was able to convey the loss and sorrow of someone who has lost too much in his life (and death) in just a few short sentences.

I had to talk to a sales guy this morning about our copiers. I could barely keep from giggling manically because all I could think about was:

“We found him in one of the copiers living off the toner.”

No one has really commented on one of my favorite exchanges of the episode (paraphrased wildly):

Wesley: “Now sprinkle with the arterial blood of an unclean. Or demon.”

They all look at Lorne, who is waving incense and mumbling, “Oh, sure, like you humans always smell so April fres…”

Lorne sees them staring at him, and says, “Why does it always have to be arterial blood of an unclean? Why can’t it ever be urine? I have plenty of urine.”

Gunn unsheathes a mean-looking dagger.

Lorne (glancing down): “Oh, look, I think I’m making some now.”

This was a wonderful, wonderful episode. The writers seem to be focusing on mini-arcs this season, as opposed to one major arc (Spike’s return and re-corporealization, Lindsey’s return). I’ve got no beef with that, but I do have to wonder what the heck Lindsey was hoping to do with this plan of his, besides piss off the Senior Partners royally.

I really don’t like what the whole Lindsey saga represents for Team Wheadon: an extremely poorly explained (characterwise) bad guy who acts like he has some deep devious plan that ultimately turns out to be “I’m gonna beat you up real good, Angel!” Why does Lindsay show up with his one-note hatred for Angel back, intact, with no explanation? What is the point of his plan? It was basically shades of Buffy’s Season 7 Big Bad: lots of deep sounding handwaving, no delivery. The deviousness of the whole Jasmine saga was what made Angel better than Buffy (though even that had some pointlessness: what was the purpose of the Beast? Of Angelus? To waste people’s time and distract them from Cordy’s baby? Why not just have her take a vacation to Tahiti?)

I also highly dislike the Powers That Be situation. Last season opened up the fascinating and truly devious concept that the Powers that Be’s show-long machinations might well have simply been to bring Jasmine into our world, that they were “good” in a sense that made Team Angel think seriously about what “good” meant, and set up their willingness to take over WFH. But now, according to Cordy, the PtB are, after all, benign powers that apparently bear no responsibility or connection to Jasmine. What the heck were they doing when this huge plot was going on? Oh nothing: Cordy has a vision that says that bad guys are bad: get back to work Angel! Wha?

Cordy’s exit is a heartwrenching goodbye to a character though, and that scene where she and Angel discuss what might have been is really sad in retrospect. Good job there. I’m just not as hot about the writing/planning going on in the show.

And wait a second: who the hell were the cyborg people!!!

Hold on, there,Apos. This wasn’t the season finale. It’s, what, just a little past halfway? Lindsey and Eve’s motivations are still unexplained, but that doesn’t mean an explanation isn’t forthcoming. Neither of these characters are dead, for one thing. Lindsey seems to be in a bad place right now, but Eve’s still out and about and probably pretty bitter that her boyfriend is being tortured in a hell dimension. I don’t think this episode was meant as a resolution of the story arc, just a set back for the antagonists.

As for Jasmine, it was never made clear how the other Powers that Be felt about her machinations. Could be there are factions, could be that she was a “rogue” Power. Could just be that it’s simply now been established that the PtB may not always act with the best interests of Angel Inc. at heart. They can still be worked with, just not trusted. Much like Wolfram and Hart, really, which has a nice symmetry to it. From how I remember the episode, it seemed to me that Cordy had gotten her return through a bit of arm-twisting. They’re still not the good guys we thought they were before last season, but they haven’t morphed into total villains, either.

Well, okay, your X-box gripe is valid. However, on the N64 version of DonkeyKong, before you can defeat the bad dude once and for all, you have to get a key. The way to get the key is to play the (virtual) original arcade version of DonkeyKong sits and get past Level 2. It plays like the original arcade game, complete with that damn music. I can personally feel Spike’s pain because after logging 100+ hours and finally passing every other challenge, I simply could not get past Level 1 of that freaking arcade game. I hate that game and I hate that music. I can see the finish line but have never been able to break the tape.

**

Okay, this was easily the best episode of the season. It reminded me of why I loved the show last year (well, the second half anyway). I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again, the problem with the show this season is Spike. They don’t know what to do with him. He and Angel are 100% redundant characters and one of them has gotta go because two heroes is one too many.

And then we have the female trouble. Fred is simply not a leading lady nor is Eve. Cordy and Lilah were strong contenders for the role but both (sniff, sniff) are gone. Relationships are a big part of the show and they’ve every significant romantic relationshop fall apart: Fred/Gunn, Angel/Cordy, Wes/Lilah. That is a huge void to fill. I suspect they wanted some sexually charged sparring to go on between Eve and Angel, but the actors had no chemistry and the audience hates Eve.

Anywho, it was a great ending. I actually gasped when I realized that Cordy was dead. I agree that CC looked great and she was a breath of fresh air. I do hope this episode really does get Angel back on track.

I agree that they don’t quite seem to know what to do with Spike. I had been under the impression that Spike was going to be a constant goad to Angel in the sense of “What the bloody hell do you think you’re doing, working for the Evil Law Firm From Hell?”. Instead, outside of a couple of brief mentions, the only time he really makes an issue of it is in “Destiny” and in “Soul Purpose” when Wes and Gunn try to recruit him. At least Spike and Angel seem to have quit acting like a couple of snot-nosed middle school kids. That got old by the end of the first episode. What I’d really like is for Spike to give up on the Shanshu cookie. Somebody (preferably cute, female and in love with him) needs to tell him that look, your soul doesn’t come with an anti-happiness clause, and the big apocalypse that ends with the VWAS becoming human might not happen for a thousand years, and for that thousand years he doesn’t dare have even one moment of happiness, and you can, and maybe that’s your reward- to live your unlife and be happy. That way, Angel could be the angst-ridden hero, and Spike could be a member of the Fang Gang who has a cute girlfriend he can merrily shag and still keep his soul attached to the rest of him. Plus there could be the “how come you get to have a happy life and I don’t” tension…

I loved that scene with Lorne. I almost died laughing at the “Oh, look, I think I’m making some now” line. I’m so ecstatically glad that Lorne has managed to detach that cell phone from his ear and actually be a useful character again. He’s actually become my favorite character on the show.

Oh, and the Harmony torturing Eve scene was hilarious. “I begged her to run away…”

I’m actually not too bothered by the whole lack of a strong female lead thing. I’ve got, let’s see, James Marsters, Alexis Denisoff, J. August Richards, David Boreanaz and yes, even Andy Hallet to look at. I think Spike needs a love interest, because, let’s face it, Spike isn’t really all that much fun unless he’s in love, but I really don’t understand the hangup everybody has about the lack of strong female characters.

I’m finding myself not missing Cordy, but I think that’s because I never watched the show until last season, and CC was out of the picture for a goodly part of the season, so I haven’t really had a chance to see the character develop. I imagine that if I can find out when the syndicated episodes are broadcast in my local market and watch the first three seasons, then when I catch “You’re Welcome” in repeats, I’ll get sniffly when Cordy dies.

I must say DB’s acting has improved. That look on his face when he learned that Cordy had died without ever waking up was definitely worth the price of admission.

The sounds coming out of the TV were from level 4 of DK, the one with the elevators and the bouncing rivets. Having never played a console game since SNES I have no idea if that level was in the N64 version, however.

It was great to see Charisma Cleavage Carpenter, I mean, Cordilia Cleavage Chase, again. The cast was busting out fantastically, and the depth and breadth of the mounds of character she put forth were just scrumptiously stunning. And the scenery! What a fantastic set, I’m very nearly [sub]w[/sub]rack[sub]ed[/sub] with sorrow at the idea of not seeing her again.

I can’t believe they killed her off, the boobs.

So, what else happened?

[sub]Seriously, though, that was like “All cleavage, all the time.” :smiley: [/sub]

Heh. That’s exactly what I was thinking as Angel finished his phone call.

I don’t think Lindsay is gone for good, but I hope when he comes back it’s minus the Bon Jovi hair style.

And even though I like Eve, I thought Harmony beating her up was hysterical, especially when she complained that Eve was already talking, and how she tried to convince her to run away. :slight_smile:

The warning/code that was given out before the mass exit, do you think it was explained to the employees, or they were just told to leave? While I figure that Eve wasn’t the only one to know about the basement beastie (someone had to feed the thing, and I don’t see her doing it) someone would have mentioned it if everyone knew, wouldn’t they? Not everyone there seems entirely evil, someone like Knox might have spoken up, maybe.