Angel 11/3

Cafe Society
1

Ok well its 10 or so and no Angel thread so I guess I’m doing it again this week. Over all I give it a 9 out of 10. I liked it a lot, and not just because Fred was the focus.

Things I liked:
• Fred’s nervous preperation
• “Yah, yah I heard. Hulk smash.”
• “They realy talk about me in the chat rooms?”
• Liliah - Wes - Fred love triangle set up for.
• “Oh come on I’m holding your head.”
• Pissing Fred off is a real bad idea.
• How Gun dealt with the profesor.

Things I’m not sure about:
• If Connor really matters to the plot at all. He seems more superflous than boring or annoying.
• Angel’s memory trick. It was interesting and kinda neat looking but how it was executed over all was mildly annoying.

Thing I didn’t like:
• Opening a portal in front of that many people? I’d let it slide in another episode but I had to grade this one on a different scale.

The preview for next week’s looks good. “She’s the tasty one, half of her is neck!” I’m really liking this season of Angel and hope it keeps up the quality.

2

I enjoyed it too, but mostly the Fred parts. We’re actually seeing a person there instead of a schyzophrenic. And what they did with the prof was actually enough to surprise me. No mean feat, that. :slight_smile:
And I agree completely with you on the Connor thing. He’s just some lame addition that seems to just be there because the writers could do it. Whoo-hah.

3

My jaw dropped to the floor when Gunn killed Professor Seidel and remained there until the credits rolled. This is the way to kick off November sweeps!

4

Spoiler speculation:

[spoiler]

What I was wondering about was the fact that it wasn’t made totally clear that the Prof. was the one responsible for her being sent to …whereever. It was implied, but he didn’t react the way a totally guilty person would. I suspect that we’ll find out that it was really the TA that was responsible, and that they killed an innocent man.[/spoiler]

5

atrael… a man who just happened to have memorized the incantation to open a portal? What a coincidence!

Hey, continuity police: Wasn’t about an episode and a half spent wandering around trying desparately to find a place where they could open up a dimensional portal, because there were specific, rare places where they could do that? Fred knew the spell when she was on Pylea, but she had no way to find out where to recite it… Something must have change, because now people are popping those things open any dang place they want to…

6

Another really strong episode. Angel really seems to be pulling away from Buffy as far as this season goes.

As far as the “portals” nit- I thought it was the portal to Pylea that could be only opened in a few spots. Remember the portal that was opened to wisk away Connor wasn’t in anyplace special.

Connor’s hamfisted romance attempts were worth a sad chuckle. I am still not sure were he fits in. I wouldn’t mind if the writers would make of their minds soon.

Lyla continues to get strong lines. Wesley also is still working well from a plot and line point of view.

The only nit for me was the strange preview. Probably a memory restation spell gone bad IMHO. Still a bit like a previous Buffy episode though.

Overall an 8 in my book (the Connor portions dragged it down, but the angry Fred parts, and Lyla and Wesley bits were pure gold).

7

I’m terribley, horribly, desperately afraid that I am beginning to like AtS more than BTVS. Oh, I still hate Angel the character, but I’m really starting to like Wes, Lilah, and Fred. Plus, you know, the people on AtS are acting like adults.
sigh
At least I won’t have to give up the Buffyverse completely when ME does their level best to make me hate S7 of BTVS.

8

Well, despite his hell-dimension childhood, Connor’s still a horny teenager, peeping down Cordy’s shirt and all. It must have been torture for him to share the bed with her. I’d like to see Connor participate a little more in larger storylines; I can only handle characters on the backburner for so long. This is perhaps the only instance I can think of in recent TV history where a pregnancy and birth has worked in the plot, and so far the writers don’t seem to be capitalizing on it. In time, I tell myself. I must have a little faith.

I liked the smooth cutting between scenes, which gave the episode some nifty fluidity. I also liked Angel’s memory trick. Fred reminded me of Evil Willow, and I thought it interesting that Gunn actively participated in her revenge (Wesley too, but not to the same degree), in fact, doing it for her–in contrast to the Scoobies, who did everything they could to prevent Willow from killing anyone. I like when ideas of absolute morality get muddled on both Buffy and Angel, challenging their superheroism.

9

I greatly enjoyed this episode.

It was clear from Gunn’s warning (as well as Wesley’s and Angel’s) to Fred that killing a human is a line to avoid crossing. “If you do it, I’ll lose you,” he warned. Then he crossed the line for her. It was understandable, for sure, but Josh has been pretty clear that killing a human is a Very Bad Thing in the Buffy/Angelverse.

Has Gunn ever killed a human before? Fred looked mortified when it actually happened. Will this cause a rift between them? I think so.

I also thought it was telling that they told Angel that the prof fell into his own portal, rather than telling the whole truth. Will there be fallout from that?

This season seems to be showing the Danger of Lies.

10

I hope not; wasn’t that last year’s theme (well, both the danger of and the power of lies)?

Sua

11

Actually, he said, “They really talk about me in the chatty rooms?”, which made it even funnier.

Overall, a strong episode, but I was also confused about where/how portals can be opened, and surprised that this one was opened intentionally in front of so many witnesses. It’s a little frustrating to me that the few times big, monster-y events happen in front of “real world” witnesses (i.e., people who aren’t aware of the existence of demons), we never really see the repercussions. There have been quite a few broad hints that people simply purposefully forget, or they remember the event as something that makes sense, but I’d like to see a bunch of scientists rationalize seeing a speaker get tentacled from above.

Maybe it’s from watching too many soaps as a teen, but the whole amnesia thing is already wearing thin already. I hope Cordy’s isn’t going to be a long-term plot device, because she’s my favorite character, and I want her back, whole, pronto.

But other than that, some great writing this episode. I think the end has come for Gunn and Fred-- they’ve had their happiness, and now Gunn has done a Very Bad Thing (although out of love). So they’re not long for this world as a couple, but groundwork for the Wes and Lilah and Fred love triangle has been nicely laid.

Anyone else a little impressed with how far Fred’s skirt rode up during the make-out scene? Wow.

12

I want a show that just has Wesley, Lilah, and Fred. Well, okay, throw in Willow, too, just 'cause I don’t know what I’m going to do without a weekly dose of Alyson Hanigan after Buffy ends. Yeah, the four of them go off and… I don’t really care what they do, really, as long as they do it. Whoa. If they do it, it would be even cooler… Damn, the last time I posted about Angel, I ended up talking about Fred and Willow getting together, and now I’m right back in that gutter. But it’s a lovely gutter…

Anyway, yeah, it was a good episode, but, like Spike’s whacky insanity on the other show, I’m hoping Cordelia’s memory loss soon runs its course. Maybe next week, though the previews seemed a lot like Tabula Rasa from last season’s Buffy. However, if they have a line as funny as “Why didn’t you just call me Horny Giles? Or Desperate-for-a-Shag Giles?!” I’ll let it pass.

Another thing that’s sorta starting to wear on me is the whole Gunn as tough-street-guy saying something nerdy. I like Gunn as a character, and he can be highly hilarious, but it’s not funny to have him say something nerdy just because he’s black.

I’m glad the Connor-Cordy smoochies are going no further, because, well, yeaaargh. I cringed when it happened, but, well, I suppose that’s not really a big thing, since I tend to cringe whenever Connor is onscreen. I wish they’d just wrap up the Connor thing. It would have been much more interesting to have him be an actual normal person (remember how big a deal they made about that when Darla was preggers?), but now he’s gotta be some kind of superfriend, and it’s annoying. Lest you think that I just have this problem with Connor because I have a weak stomach for teenagers on teevee, I have actually always liked Dawn, so there!

Ee, hee hee hee, “Hulk smash!”

13

My selective hearing changed this line to “OG Smash!” which was terribly amusing.

Next weeks ep better not be the same sort of stuff as Tabula Rasa, if they don’t have a significantly different twist, I will be very disappointed.

14

You too!!! I didn’t want to say anything because it just seemed so unlikely!

Wow. We really do spend too much time on the boards! :smiley:

15

What a great episode! Go Fred! And go Gunn with your noble boyfriend self! (He could be my boyfriend any day.) It will be very interesting to see how this changes their relationship.

Was anybody else expecting the blond TA to be the real villian? I thought Fred would send the professor through the portal, only to find out that the TA was really the one responsible. But I like the way it actually ended much more.

I’m so very bored with Cordelia’s amnesia, but I remain hopeful that it will be used to squelch the budding Angel/Cordy romance.

16

Yeah well, I still think it was her. Jelouse over the ‘other’ students being smarter than her. I suspect that she and the prof. had been experimenting with the portal things for a while, and every time the prof. would suggest bringing in one of his brighter students to participate in the experiments, the TA would send them to hell to remove the competition. Granted that I haven’t been watching Angel that long, but in the Buffy/Angel-verse, the bad guys at the end usually come out being obviously bad. The prof just didn’t come off like that…mostly he seemed to just want to get away. And come on, while it’s true the charaters don’t have to be brilliant, would you leave the girl that you sent to hell, that somehow made it back alone in your office with all your books of occult stuff? Hell, why invite her back at all? Just doesn’t make a lot of sense to me.

As far as him pulling the demon thing out and sending it after Angel, well, if a known vamp starts coming after you, and knowing that he suspects you of sending his friend to hell, are you going to hope that he’ll sit quietly and listen to reason? Especially after he threw your desk across the room? I still say it’ll come out later that they killed the wrong person…I’m bookmarking this thread, so that years from now I can pull it back and say I told ya so… :smiley:

17

Atrael,

You could be right, but there is evidence from the episode that the prof was at the very least being dishonest with Fred. He told her that as a physicist, he was open to the idea of extra/alternate dimensions in modern physics theories, but that he was still having trouble accepting them as reality, a la Fred’s story of living in another dimension. Then a few minutes later, the prof pulls that demon out of a portal to attack Angel. So even if it turns out that he wasn’t THE bad guy, he definitely has some ‘splainin’ to do.

18

And as to why he would have invited Fred back, to dispose of her again of course!

Although I seem to remember that it was Fred’s stumbling across a book in the college library that opened her portal the first time around. Am I misremembering?

19

Well, he sure ain’t going to be ‘splainin’ nuthin’ now.

20

The professor was the bad guy. Er, I think. I mean, I thought that the blonde chick was the bad guy (er, gal, or whatever) when I first saw the setup, but don’t forget that Fred gave the professor her phone number at his request. Then, at Wesley’s apartment, her phone rang with the Arcane Gobbledygook, and a portal opened. Chances are, Angel and Gunn didn’t call her to say, “Hi, Fred, just thought we’d send you back to Pylea!” So it was the prof. Damn, it would have been mroe interesting if it was the T.A.