Just as I feared. Ho hum.
And the worst part is, if some characters die in the finale, they’ll be dying to some random out of the blue struggle that doesn’t really do their character justice or take them anywhere as a “big finish.” Bah I tells you!
Still, annoying plots and messed up arcs aside, this is always worth watching.
I liked the episode. It’s beginning to make sense now. Angel’s apparent slide into evil has been going on for a while now. Now we get to know why.
Some random questions, which I will put in a spoiler box because I don’t want to ruin anything for anyone.
[spoiler]BTW, did Hamilton happen to see what was going on behind the glammour?
Am I the only one who thought the Senator was a dig at Hillary Clinton?
And just how does Angel feel about having killed the Keeper of the Deep, or whatever he was called?[/spoiler]
Two bits says the Keeper isn’t really dead.
“That one time…” Genius! Deep-six Spangedarcilla out of fanfic last week and establish Spangel this week. Heh.
The whole circle thing did come off a little rushed. I gotta echo the sentiment that last week’s ep could’ve served better to establish this than as the stand-alone it was.
I think I brought this up at the time last season and my opinion was that it doesn’t, unless Willow used the same curse again. The ep was just on in syndication a couple of weeks ago and I meant to pay attention to it but ended up sort of forgetting. But I stand by that if Willow put his soul back using another method then Angel is free of the curse, even if he doesn’t realize that he’s free of it.
Yes, that was a dig at Hillary Clinton. Blond female senator who is going to run for President in ‘08. Couldn’t be anything but a dig at Senator Clinton.
On the who gets killed off speculation: I actually have a ho-hum reaction. I mean, there was a big deal about how the finale of Buffy would kill off a major character, and so they did: Spike. And, of course, next season, here he was back again. So, OK, there won’t be a “next season” but if they do bump someone off in the finale, it won’t be Spike (“been there, done that”) and anyone else is perfectably able to return.
Takes the edge off.
And I agree, the whole thing seems a bit rushed, which is not inexplicable, of course.
A better finish to last nights episode would’ve had the crew killing Angel, and then spending the final episode learning, to their horror, why that was a big mistake.
Since I’m dreaming, I’d also like $10,000,000 and a pony for my little girl. 
Actually, it was Anya. Spike had already been announced as coming over to Angel at that point hadn’t he? Anya got chopped. But at that point the current writers had ruined her character anyway.
Good episode by the way, looking forward to the finale.
Once I saw Angel looking around the room at the Black Thorns I knew he was planning on killing them. That should really annoy the S.P.'s
So what exactly is the point of Angel’s plan? It seemed he was saying, “We’ll never make a real difference, so let’s all die in an effort to flip the bird to the SPs.”
And did anyone else catch:
Wesley: “Why the sudden need to tie up loose ends?”
Yep - that was pretty much the gist of it, I thought.
And I’m putting that line of Lorne’s on my door today…how’d it go?
“Could I not be the poster child for your nervous breakdown?”
I thought he meant that they could never permanently stop the Senior Partners, as they were immortal and exist on another plane of existance. But by taking out their direct link to the power struture on Earth it would sure mess with there plans for a while (and maybe give other champions a chance to get the upper hand for a while).
In any event, maybe they only get a decade or two of real benefit before the black thorns were finally reformed, but they probably can’t replace some of those members and the general public would have benefited during that period as well. Also all the now maturing Slayers will be online and the watchers council rebuilt- more then evening out the odds.
I thought you can’t just stop all evil, but rather just keep the balance between good and evil. Right now the balance is out of wack, thanks to the efforts of the Black Thorns for the partners. Kill them off, and maybe the balance gets a chance to be restored, or even moved a bit more in favor of good this time.
Also, there was the “turning the S.P.'s manipulations against them” angle. That also appeals to underdog nature of the F.G.
Yes, it felt way rushed. But, I may have even liked this better than the whole betrayal plotline being dragged out for weeks so we all figured it out. It went fast, but I wasn’t sure what was happening until, as elf said, I saw Angel giving the ol’ evil eye to everyone in the Black Thorn.
And I’m too lazy to scroll down and see who asked it, but I was under the impression that Hamilton didn’t see through the glamour, and he thinks the FG are all at each others’ throats–or at least Angel’s.
Lastly, I got ten bucks on Wes for the dirt nap. He’s been dying for weeks, let the man go.
Knew I forgot something …
I was very happy to see that there was a deeper reason for Lindsay’s return. I don’t know if it was made up at the last minute or not, but the idea of Lindsay coming back just to kill Angel for no bigger purpose never sat right with me.
It’s not just about the short term, small-scale gains. This is a major strike, akin to a Normandy landing! If you’re in the Fang Gang, think about all the benefits you get:
You kill an arch-mage who specializes in memory reversal spells. With his death may come the reversal of some of his charms! Also: bonus points for getting revenge on a guy who tormented and twisted Connor.
You kill the head of the Fell Brethren and save their saviour from ritual sacrifice.
You kill a minor devil and remove him from the Evil Racquetball circuit.
Okay, those are all pretty small potatoes.
But check this out:
You eliminate a demon who was going to take office as President, and replace her with a (by all appearances) near-Champion-caliber guy. In charge of the whole United States. That, in itself, is a massive coup. That’s four years (eight if you’re lucky) of WRH’s plans seriously weakened. Of course, you also eliminate our first female President, striking a blow against gender equality… but hey, we can’t be perfect, can we?
If you can kill every last member of the circle, then you have broken the chain and taken out the leadership cell. The Senior Partners will have to re-form the Circle with untested contacts, starting at zero (or with their junior varsity, if they’ve held some evil in reserve). I foresee at least a decade of internal power struggles, treachery, perfidy, back-stabbing, and centuries of vendettas – an evil Civil War. Good times… good times.
Who else was I supposed to recognize at Angel’s initiation party? And what benefits have I left out?
Also: does Angel really think a glammer is going to fool Alec Baldwin? He is really well-dressed!
Ya know what? I’m on board with Angel’s plan. I like the small slow struggle between good and evil this show portrays. Much of the evil the Senior Partners manipulate is human evil, something that will never go away and can never bet totally defeated. Hell is just us.
At least that’s how I read what Holland Manners said many seasons ago.
So the Fang Gang can never defeat the Senior Partners, just gum up the works for a while. Good idea but it’s a tough sell for a Dramatic Television Finale.
My only real problem is that Angel’s plan isn’t all that clever. The old “Join the enemy and get the info to destroy them all” ploy? And the Senior Partners are gonna fall for that? Seems too easy.
I suspect the SP had a meeting over this:
The Hart: Good news. It seems our long term goal is finally in sight. We have managed to turn Angel.
The Wolf: I remain suspicious. He has only stared his play for power recently. And while he may have killed one of his own, many questions remain. Was Knox working for Angel? Why are we only finding out about it after the fact? If he truly wishes to gain our trust, why not let us know of his plans?
The Hart: Perhaps he fears his other lieutenants will turn on him. Perhaps he wishes to consolidate his power more fully before killing them all.
The Wolf: I still think we should wait and see before giving him access to the Black Thorn Circle. His many years as a Champion cannot be forgotten after a mere two months of evil.
The Hart: I say we bring him into our fold now. To turn a true Hero without resorting to Angelus is quite a coup. The Balance tips ever more in out favor.
The Wolf: As we cannot agree, we must turn to our colleague to decide.
The Hart: Yes. What say you?
The Ram: Three hundred quatloos on the newcomer!
The Wolf: sigh
This didn’t follow last week’s episode at all. It did follow two weeks ago’s episode quite nicely. Proving yet again that last week was a bad idea.
They just better at least SHOW us Wolf Ram and Hart next week, dammit.
Depends on how they die. A mystical death can be undone. But an old fashioned, mundane, normal death can’t. Remember Tara?
I could buy that, but it would have been nice if it had been explained that way. Perhaps even nicer if Willow had somehow suggested it when it happened.
But then, I’m the guy who never liked the character of Andrew and was moderately annoyed that we had to see him twice this season instead of guest shots by Xander (who would have, IMHO, been better for the psycho Slayer episode) and Willow (who would have been better for last week’s episode). Last week would have actually been a great opportunity for a cameo by Willow to subtly suggest, in the “move on” speech, that Angel is now able to move on in a way he wasn’t before.
I realize that the casting people can’t control this kind of thing, but it would have been nice.
On the other hand, what if they killed everyone off except Harmony? And then gave her her own spin-off.
It could happen.