Anglo Irish people in the modern day Republic of Ireland

Whats the status if any of the old Anglo Irish population in the current republic? As distinct from Irish protestants. I know one was President of Ireland Erskine Childers, and he had an upper class English accent to boot. Are the still a distinct group?

So where are the current day Wellington, Roberts, Cunnigham, Alan Brooks and Montgomeries (was it a rule you had to be Anglo Irish)

There are still people who are distinctly Anglo-Irish. It no longer carries much or any social cachet, and it can be a little isolating, if you let it be (in the sense that Anglo-Irish social circles are fairly small, and if you choose to move exclusively in them you’ll be a bit cut off from the mainstream of Irish life).

Any area that Anglo Irish tend to be concentrated in, I would think perhaps Dublin, always a heavy English presence there.

Cork?

Nowadays Anglo-Irish is always going to seem like a synonym for Protestant.

Anyway South Dublin is supposed to be a hive of Anglo-Irish, latterly known as West Brits.

Historically the Anglo-Irish, or at least the upper echelons, were a landed class. Thus you found them as landowners throughout the country. The richer and more fertile parts of the country had a greater conscentration of landowners and, therefore, of Anglo-Irish. You also found them in Dublin, where they dominated the professional classes, and the upper ranks of the commercial and bureaucratic classes. The suburbs and vicinity of south Dublin was where they tended to live. South Dublin is now much more intensively developed, and the presence and impact of the Anglo-Irish is much reduced.

By the early twentieth century they no longer had commercial dominance. Nor did they dominate most professions. (They were probably over-represented at the upper reaches of business and the professions, but not dominant). They continued to dominate the administrative establishment. Land purchase (by tenants) meant that, while the continued to occupy big houses and demesnes throughout the country, their economic and social importance was much reduced. Their decline was accelerated after independence, when they lost their domination of the administrative classes, and declined still further as landowners. Many, moreover, felt forced to choose between the “Anglo” and “Irish” aspects of their identity, and chose Anglo. The officer class of the British army was a traditional haven for many Anglo-Irish younger sons; many of them stuck with the British army and left Ireland. Or their children left Ireland. Ireland had continued high emigration for decades after independence, and the Anglo-Irish were probably over-represented among emigrants (though they wouldn’t necessarily have thought of going to Britain as “emigrating”).

Anglo-Irish is not really a synonym for Protestant. For a start, Presbyterians and other dissenters were not normally considered Anglo-Irish; they were stereotypically Anglican. More to the point, though, “Anglo-Irish” implied middle or upper class. Working-class protestants, who were numerous, were not normally considered Anglo-Irish.

“West Brits” are not the same thing either. West Brits could be Catholic, and indeed stereotypically were. “West Brit” (or “West Briton”) was a term of abuse for an Irishman who identified with and supported the British establishment in Ireland (usually, it was implied or stated, because it was materially advantageous to do so). West Brits were not assumed to be prosperous, but rather were thought to hope for prosperity.

And, of course, we mustn’t forget Brendan Behan, who famously defined an Anglo-Irishman as “a Protestant on a horse”.

As far as censuses and surveys go, aren’t most Anglo-Irish (e.g. long established Anglicans) more likely to self-identify as simply “Irish”? Whereas most Scots-Irish/Presbyterians are more likely to identify as such, or as “British” in the North?

Scotch-Irish is not a term used in Ireland at all, and doesn’t appear on the census form. The term Anglo-Irish is used (though, it has to be said, mainly in a historical context) but it doesn’t appear on the census form either. In the “ethnic and cultural background” question, the options offered were:

A. White

  1. Irish
  2. Irish traveller
  3. Any other white background
    B. Black or Black Irish
  4. African
  5. Any other black background
    C. Asian or Asian Irish
  6. Chinese
  7. Any other Asian background
    D. Other, including mixed description
  8. Other, write in description.

There was a separarate question on “nationality”, i.e. citizenship, where you could tick “Irish”, or specify another nationality, or indicate that you had no nationality. You could give more than one nationality, if you had more than one.

Yeah UDS’s post was much better than mine. I never thought about it before but you’re right about the “West Brit” tag. Anyway, a good fictional book that contains something of the twilight of the Anglo-Irish is The Destinies Of Darcy Dancer, Gentleman.

“Scotch Irish” is an American term. It was invented by descendants of Ulster Protestants who’d settled in the USA–some, before the Revolution. Formerly known as “Irish,” they wanted to let everybody know they were not the Catholic bog-trotters who began coming over in large numbers during the Great Famine.

Currently, “Scots Irish” is the preferred term.

(My Scotch Irish grandma helped raise me but most of my ancestors came over later than hers. Out of the bogs.)

Yeah but are you shanty or lace curtain? :wink:

Thanks. Follow up, any prominent Anglo-Irish in Ireland today, who are not Erskine Childers?

I suppose Sir Jack Leslie qualifies although he was born abroad and has spent most of his life abroad.

Not sure if he quite qualifies as Anglo-Irish but there’s also Senator David Norris.

My parents considered naming me “Bridget”–there are Bridgets on both sides of the family. But they picked a more lace curtain option.

The grandmother who came from East Galway really did have lace curtains in the front room. And a gloomy portrait of her late husband (also from East Galway), looking distinguished in his police uniform. And a statue of the Infant of Prague in the dining room. (Why Prague? Here’s why!)

That’s from an official form from the Irish government? I thought that “Black Irish” (a) was not a term used much, if at all, in Ireland, and (b) didn’t actually refer to black people. To Americans, “black Irish” means an Irish person with black hair and/or darker skin than your average Irish person. Since most Irish people have incredibly fair skin, being darker than average merely means that your skin isn’t the color of paper.

^
Most Irish are not incredibly fair; at least most Southern Irish. They look… like people from the British Isles do.

We have a Child Of Prague. :slight_smile:

Black Irish in this context refers to Irish people who are black, ie of African descent.

Yeah it’s a common misconception that we’re all pale as ghosts. Irish people run the whole gamut. FWIW the term “Black Irish” in the American context has no currency in Ireland, and I’m not quite sure what it means.

The term Anglo-Irish to me stereotypically refers to someone who belongs to the Church of Ireland, is from a wealthy landowning background, speaks with an accent almost indistinguishable from a British upper-class accent (probably having been sent away to boarding school in England as a child) and studied at Trinity College Dublin.

There may not be many Anglo-Irish left, but there are some in public life. Martin Mansergh comes to mind, as does Lord Henry Mountcharles.

I have the impression that the area where I grew up (south Dublin and north Wicklow, including Dún Laoghaire/Sandycove, Dalkey, Bray, Greystones, Delgany and Enniskerry) has a higher proportion of people of Anglo-Irish background than the country as a whole. But that proportion is still vanishingly small.

If you can find a map of Ireland that shows the proportion of Church of Ireland, there is probably a correlation with the (much smaller) number of Anglo-Irish.

I recommend the novels of Jennifer Johnston who wrote very sympathetically about the demise of the Anglo-Irish. A good start is “The Essential Jennifer Johnston” which has three of her best novels in one volume.

They are both culturally Anglo-Irish although the Leslie family is Scottish and Sir John Leslie happens to be Catholic.