We must as a society like our pets better than other people…
When a pet is old, and/or ill to the point where it’s quality of life deteriorates, it is very common to put them to sleep and end the suffering.
When a person is old and/or ill to the point where his or her quality of life deteriorates, ending the human’s suffering - even though the human may be all for the idea, and we’ll never know what our pet is really thinking - results in a murder charge for anyone who dare assist.
The dividing line here is obviously between who you care about–human, animal, and perhaps even plant–and who you don’t. I see nothing at all wrong with this.
There is an old quotation (I don’t remember who said it) which I will paraphrase as “If I had to choose between betraying my friend or my country, I hope I would betray my country.” Loyalty must diminish with distance, or there is no real loyalty at all.
Nature abhors a vacuum, which means there are a lot of people whose brains are in mortal peril.
I don’t think it has much to do with who we love more, it has alot to do with fear. I think almost everyone, even alot of the people who formally oppose legalized euthanasia for people, recognize that it is often kinder to take people out than let them go on their own. The problem is the slippery slope.
Let’s look at dogs as our example. (And of course, I know it would never get as bad with people, I’m just presenting the thinking) Many people have their animals put to sleep when they are perfectly healthy, for no other reason than that they are inconvenienced by their continued life. Or put them down for stupid things like blindness or a missing limb, things that a dog could easily live through and be perfectly happy. Happier than alot of people (dogs don’t dwell).
I think opponents of human euthanasia don’t want to see us rushing to say goodby to Mom beause its getting expensive to keep her.
I euthanized Sophie, and it was the hardest decision I’veever faced. But the final making of it was easy, because while she wasn’t yet in agony, she had begun to bleed internally and it wouldn’t be long before she was in pain. So helping her out was easy. But I’d be looking at doing it for days beforehand and tormented all the way.
My sister had two strokes. After the second one she couldn’t swallow. She had left a document stating in no uncertain terms, and great detail, that she wanted to die if something like that happened. It woul dhave taken a feeding tube and alot of other stuff to keep her going and she didn’t want it. So we took her home, doped her up on morphine, and watched her slowly fade out from starvation and dehydration. It probably would hav ebeen easier just to give her a shot. Who knows whether she suffered in those last 48 hours? I don’t.
get a basic checkup
try and get my doc to give me a broadbased anti-biotic to have on hand
renew my driver’s license (due for next year…if any agency is going to be screwed up, it’s the DMV)
Print out/request copies of every important document of my life, especially financial and insurance records
See my optometrist and get plenty of contacts and a new pair of glasses, and stock up bigtime on supplies for same.
Basically, think: what might I need next year? Well, I will make sure I have it THIS year…just in case.
I think a distinction needs to be made, and probably already has been made in this thread, between animals and pets. The cow or oyster being bred for human consumption has no more inherent worth than a potatoe or mushroom cultivated for the same purpose.
Animals, when kept as pets seem to develop a personality over time and we tend to anthropomorphize them. They then are valued as people, but probably only by their owner.
That being said, I might run into a burning house to retrive any child or even my own dog, but probably not your dog.
One final irreverent thought, and I’m sure I’m gonna get in trouble for this one: “Of course animals are as worthy as people, but only as a food source.”
Abstainer:a weak person who yields to the temptation of denying himself a pleasure. - Ambrose Bierce
[[Animals, when kept as pets seem to develop a personality over time and we tend to anthropomorphize them. ]]
It would be much more accurate to say that we learn just how similar we are to them, and vice versa.
Recently, we had to put our 13 year old Australian Shepherd to sleep. The reason was, she suffered two strokes, and was quickly deteriorating. We did not put her to sleep because she was arthritic, we kept her til the very end. Anyway, i really didn’t feel too much sadness. I do miss her, but mostly it was relief because she was in a lot of pain and losing control over herself.
That said, if an animal needs a life saving operation, such as a heart transplant, i would not pay the money for it. It may seem cold hearted but Financially, it is not a necessary thing (if a relative had a disease or needed a transplant i would help with that). If an animal and a person were in danger of being killed, i would save the person.
I dunno…what if the person in question was 86? I was told of Sophie’s cancer about 6 months ago. She was 16 1/2. I didn’t even bother to have tests run to get the details. It had nothing to do with a lack of love, it had to do with being realistic. She was already on the other side of ancient in dog years (by some estimates of dog to human years, she was 100 years old). What would be the point of putting her through the hell of treatment? Gain another 6 months…MAYBE?
However, if she had developed cancer at 8? I would have done everything I could. When she went blind, I happened to be seriously broke, barely making the rent. So I formed a “foundation” “Save Sophie’s Sight” and begged money from everyone I ever knew to try and do what I could to save it. I spent $1000 for tests and treatment, but it didn’t work. She went completely blind and just entered a new phase of life. (Someone said something I thought was kind of nice: dogs don’t understand that they are blind or deaf. They jsut think the world is getting really dark and quiet. Sometimes ignorance is bliss.)
Anyway, my point is that we all die, dogs and people alike, and there is an upper limit to our lifetimes. How hard do you fight for life at 50? With everything you’ve got. At 70? Still damn hard. At 90? You fight not to be in pain.
I love what the longest lived woman on record (121, I think) said when she was asked how she saw her future when she was around 110. Her answer? “Short”.
Doobious, I agree and would like to add also that animals (I’ll use dogs in this example)don’t understand what’s happening to them. My dog Watson had a tumor on his leg and the vet removed it and suggested I get it biopsied (sp) and I had to start thinking about what I would do if he had cancer. I love my dog and I don’t know that I would put him through chemo or other procedures to prolong his life. He wouldn’t know that I was trying to help him, he would only know that he hurts and everytime I take him for treatments, he hurts again. All this would selfish on my part, because I would put him through all of the suffering so that I get to spend more time with him.
I have two dogs and I can’t imagine how I will feel when their old and I have to make such a hard decision. I just hope I can look past my own feelings and do what’s best for the dogs.
Stoidella- you got your reply in so fast, mine looks really redundant. I’m sorry for your loss and it sounds like your dog was very lucky indeed to have you for so long.
Stoidella- you got your reply in so fast, mine looks really redundant. I’m sorry for your loss and it sounds like your dog was very lucky indeed to have you for so long.
I love my dog like he’s my child. If he needed a lifesaving operation I would do everything in my power to see to it that he got it. Just my opinion, they way I am. I would do the same for a child or my husband. My pets are one of the family, period.
An optimist sees an opportunity in every calamity; A pessimist sees a calamity in every opportunity.
I responded to another post of yours before I read this one. I guess it really doesn’t matter. I’d tell the same story about my brother and that pain. My dog is right now sitting at my feet and I can feel tears mar my face at the thought of when I will have to face losing her. She’s been my ‘hairy little girl’ for three wonderful years. In fact, I stole her from a neighbor (who pounded the shit out of her in my sight) a month before the loss of my brother. She is as precious to me as I suppose someone else’s child is to them because she IS my child. My father and mother know my views on marriage and children and they treat her like a grandchild since this is as close as they are going to get from me.
I don’t think the pain is any less and somewhere in the thread I remember reading that we should feel the same about all animals or something about eating a burger after mourning the loss of a pet and I have to disagree with that whole idea: a cow is raised to be eaten. It is not a pet. When I lived on a farm this was the first hard lesson I had to learn. I know, seems convenient, but I don’t feel the same for cows as I do for my dog (and my cats). If someone else out there has this ability I truly do applaud you for it and I’m not trashing you; I just don’t feel the same.
Again, my heart goes out to you and my ‘hairy little girl’ gives a woof of commiseration.
One last thought: I read another post about how we only eat the ‘ugly’ animals and I’m not sure if that was said in jest (Dennis Leary does a great bit on this) but I would have to add that to me a cow is food; to another (in India) cows are sacred. If I lived there I’d respect that and if I were born and reared there my view would be completely different. Also, there are places (where escapes me but I’m sure someone will point it out) where dogs are raised as cattle. I don’t hate this practice at all. I couldn’t do it but I respect their right to do this and even see why it is economically more feasible than raising cattle. I guess it comes back to how you see the animal: Pet or food.
Yer my kinda people. (Just make sure, if you are ever faced with it, that the choices you make aren’t based in your selfishness in not wanting to let go. Sometimes your love is best expressed, and at its most selfless and courageous, when you can give them an easy end before life becomes an agony. I just went through it, I know. I was scrambling liek mad to keep Sophie going, but then it took a nasty turn. She would certainly have died within 24 hours, but it would have been an agonizing death. And having the world’s most compassionate and caring vet there, in my home, helping her ease peacefully and painlessly from this world, was the kindest and most loving thing I could do for her.)
As far as this whole thing goes, I think cows are just adorable. Those big eyes, long lashes. And if I personally owned a cow, I could probably never eat that same cow.
But I dont’ think there’s anything wrong with eating meat. What I’ve said before, and I’ll keep saying it: we should not, must not, be cruel to them in life. Modern animal husbandry is a cruel farce, and I hate it. Just because the animals will end up, AFTER they are dead, on someone’s plate, is NO excuse to make them suffer a hellish life.
"We must as a society like our pets better than other people…
When a pet is old, and/or ill to the point where it’s quality of life deteriorates, it is very common to put them to sleep and end the suffering.
When a person is old and/or ill to the point where his or her quality of life deteriorates, ending the human’s suffering - even though the human may be all for the idea, and we’ll never know what our pet is really thinking - results in a murder charge for anyone who dare assist."
Interesting point, but here is another one. We spend lots of money on health insurance and for people. Do we spend money on health insurance for pets? No. Fortunately, society values people’s health more.
[[Fortunately, society values people’s health more.]] Cheesehead
Seeing as “society” is made up exclusively of human beings, that hardly seems surprising.
I’d still rescue my dog before I’d go get 3/4 of you Dopers (much less complete strangers). And I suspect most right-thinking people (note: loaded term) would do the same.
That’s an odd assessment. it’s not as though “society” proved s health insurance for people whom it “values”. Capitalists provide health insurance for profit.
And, as it happens helath insurance IS available for pets.