Animals: As worthy as people?

Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share
1

Some of you may have been reading my thread about the loss of my dog Sophie (nearly 17 years old, with me her whole life).

I expressed at one point that my grief over my dog feels more immediate and profound than the grief I felt for my sister who died last year. At least one poster said he was disturbed to hear this and that my perspective was misshapen, essentially asserting that while yes, we care for animals and can feel sad, it is inappropriate to feel and care for them on a level equal to humans.

I disagree. I think that animals are, or can be, as deserving of our deepest love and affection as any human. I do not think that humans are “better” than animals, I think that animals are merely different, and they are creatures which can win my love and affection just as profoundly and meaningfully as humans can.

I would love to get into this more, but it is to start you all off, and I am still a bit too distracted to delve deeper at this moment.

I’ll be interested to hear whatcha all have to say on the matter.

We do precision guesswork

2

I’m with ya- this could be a Great Debate, I’m not sure…I can tell you this- sick or not- I would be much more upset if my dog (who is the love of my life, second only to my husband) died then if my own mother did. Why? My mother is a bad person, my dog is a good friend. My dog has spent more time with me in the last 3 years then my mother has in the last 28 year. Nuff said? Not pretty, just true.

An optimist sees an opportunity in every calamity; A pessimist sees a calamity in every opportunity.

3

Wow, you aren’t my sister, are you?

My sisters and I often reflect upon the fact that we do not anticipate an undue amount of grief over our mother’s passing, and all three of us have lost animals recently and it was devastating.

We do precision guesswork

4

Forget what Cheesehead said – he (she?) certainly lived up to the name on that thread.

People must be deemed more “worthy” under the law, but there is nothing inherently more worthy about people. I care more about the dogs and cats I know personally than I do about any number of strangers out there.

5

Does the cheeseball think that if you love your dog a lot you must love your sister less? Does he think if you miss your dog who lived with you more than your sister who didn’t that somehow you have insulted your sister? Phooey. The daily life makes it different. Also the pet’s unquestioning affection is so much easier to love and so much harder to do without. Now I’m “puffy-eyed here at work” but it’s ok. Stoidela, I am so sorry for your loss and I appreciate your two threads that reminded me to take a minute to mourn my lost kitty.

6

The more time I spend on this board, the more I think that Cecil should feel proud indeed of the level of fan he attracts.

:slight_smile:

7

I have always preferred my animals to most people I’ve met and to all strangers.

I definitely think animals are equal or even more worthy in a few cases. I get equally upset at the animal abuse cases as I do child abuse. All are helpless.

trisha

He who joyfully marches in rank and file has already earned my contempt. He has been given a large brain by mistake, since for him the spinal cord would suffice - Albert Einstein

8

Stoidela, amen.
Dogs (my animal of choice) rarely are vengeful, sarcastic, pissy or all the other stuff people can be.
In fact, a good dog is always there, and, what they say is true, if heaven doesn’t have dogs, it wouldn’t be heaven.

–
JMcC from SFCA
http://members.tripod.com/~weirdstuff/index.html

9

I do not wish to demean the value of relationships between people and animals. Though I’ve never been big on pets, my neighbor recently lost a beloved dog due to age and disease, and it was a tough time. We all loved that dog, and she will be sorely missed.

But this concept of “animals are as good as people” when not anchored to other principles, can lead to absurdities.

For example, dogs and cats I understand (to a point), but where do we draw the line? What about animals bred for food? Is a cow or a pig deserving of the same consideration? Will those of you who are teary eyed over Fido’s loss then sit down to a cheesburger?

And what happens when animals really become as important as people? Is it OK for the ship’s captain to bring his faithful dog along on the life boat, while a crew member drowns? Don’t have the plow horse pull that load out that muddy hole. We need to treat that horse right, to consrve its energy and because it cost a ton of money. Besides, that horse is like a child to me, we’re so close. No, I won’t let that horse over exert itself. That’s what the plantation slaves are for. Besides, they’re cheaper by the dozen.

Again, please realize that I am NOT belittling folks like Stoidela who have close and loving relationships with pets. I am just concerned that we cannot value animals on the same plane as humans.

But, the way our world is, humans are often treated like animals anyway, or worse.

SoxFan59
“Its fiction, but all the facts are true!”

10

Soxfan59 outlines the philosophical dilemma pretty well. I have to agree that when you get right down to it, no, animals aren’t equal to humans at all.
But that doesn’t mean that you’re wrong at all to feel true, sincere, deep sorrow for the loss of an animal close to you. The animal doesn’t have to be “equal” to a human to justify that feeling. And yes, I’ll feel much more sorrow for the loss of my 12-year-old dog than I will for any number of strangers and even some acquaintances.
But if my dog and some stranger were drowning, I’d have to go for the stranger first. Then I’d cry like a baby for my dog.
– Greg, Atlanta

11

This is a tough one. I grew up with a beautiful chocolate Lab named Fish. She is the only close relative (yes, I consider her a family member) of mine who has died. (So far, of course.) She passed away after I had left home… I’d been gone about six months and was devastated. I realized that the main reason for my deep grief was that I wasn’t sure if she knew I loved her. I think she did, but who knows what went on in her doggy brain when I left and didn’t come back?

I consider my current dog Crease a member of my family now. My husband, OTOH, has never had a pet. He cannot understand my demonstrative love of Crease (I hug her and kiss her) or my need to apologize to her if I accidentally run into her, step on her tail, etc.

It’s definitely a Great Debate.

Most common question I ask: “What?”
Most common question I get: “Are you really hearing impaired?”

12

It depends entirely on what person and what animal. I have friends and relatives who are much more important to me than my cats. But I know other people who could drop dead today and I wouldn’t turn a hair–while I will be very upset when my cats eventually die.

That having been said, if I saw a car speeding toward a cat and a person, I would push the person out of the way first (not knowing the cat’s and person’s individual personalities).

However, if I saw a car speeding toward one of MY cats and an uncle I detest, kitty would be in luck . . .

13

If it’s a choice between a dog I know and love and a stranger I know not at all, I think I’m gonna save the dog if I can save only one of them.

14

Stoi, sorry to hear about your pup. I’m sure you gave her a wonderful life! :`(

Sometimes I feel that since animals don’t have the cognitive skills people do, they are to be protected more. What I mean by this is I almost feel more sorry for the abused dog than the abused woman. Blasphemy, you say! No, not really. The woman can make a choice. Animals can’t. Disclaimer: This is a generalization. Do not read into it special circumstances or the story about your neighbor’s sister’s friend etc etc.

15

SoxFan, thanks for bringing some humanity and sanity to this thread. For me, humans, including strangers and relatives I don’t like, will always have more rights than animals, even my pets. The only possible exception I can think of is violent criminals and belligerent war leaders.

16

Let me add one thing before I get my hiney flamed:

I would do everything in my power to help any person I saw that was being abused. However, people have free will. They can think. They have to make their own choices even if help is offered them. Animals/pets are more dependant on us and do not have the luxury to say “Hey this guy is beating me up. I think I’ll run away and see if I can’t pick me up a new owner down at the grocery store parking lot.”

17

Bunnygirl:

You nailed it, I think. It’s the helplessness and lack of understanding. As you say, at least a person understands what’s happening when they are hurting, being abused, etc. Small children, animals, and the mentally disabled are always more heartwrenching when they are harmed, either physically or emotionally.

I can be pragmatic, though - particularly in the service of my affection and respect for animals. Does anyone remember some years back when the three whales didn’t get outta dodge soon enough and they were stuck in the ice up by the pole or Alaska or somewhere? Remember that they ended up spending one Meeeelion dollars trying to save them? That annoyed me, simply because it was obvious we were seeing natural selection in action, and if you are going to sepnd that kind of money saving animals (and YES, PLEASE DO!!! - Animal charities are about the only ones I contribute to) use it more productively to save MANY animals, not three whales that blew it.

I think that people as a species, while our intelligence and handiness around the house is pretty nifty, are no better than any other creature, and often much worse. I think that people who say we are are being self-serving, really. “We are better because we have the ability to think so, say so, and push everyone else around!”. Well, that’s a bit circular, in my opinion, not to mention the ultimate in “might makes right” thinking.

And yeah, as I’ve said on these boards before, I am a carnivore. This does not conflict in any way with my love of animals. It is natural for animals, including us, to eat other animals. What is NOT natural, and what I have a big problem with, is toroturing animals with hellish living conditions in preparation for their becoming lunch. That is unnecessary and indefensible.

Done for now.

Stoid - still thinking and crying over her Soph.

We do precision guesswork

18

*SoxFan59: But this concept of “animals are as good as people” when not anchored to other principles, can lead to absurdities.

For example, dogs and cats I understand (to a point), but where do we draw the line? What about animals bred for food? Is a cow or a pig deserving of the same consideration? Will those of you who are teary eyed over Fido’s loss then sit down to a cheesburger? *

We only love cute animals. Cows and pigs are ugly and tasty. Hence, they’re dinner.

Or, if they’re cute, but their fur is nice and warm, then BAM! They’re a jacket.

Or, if they’re cute, no fur, but their bodies contain lots of easily-synthesized hydrocarbons and body parts that supposedly increase human sex drive, then their oil & aphrodesiacs.

19

I just want to say that this really is not a big debate, it’s just a personal decision based on everyones individual experiences. I said earlier that if my mom died, it would not be as big a deal as if my beloved dog died. However, if my HUSBAND died, it would be a much, much bigger deal. The point here is that it all depends on your personal dealings with different humans and animals- no one is right or wrong (I don’t think). And incidentally, if I had to choose between a human stranger to save and my beloved dog, I would choose the human, and grieve my dog terribly. However, if my house were on fire, you can bet your ass I would burn before I let my pets die, and stupid or not, that’s a fact.

An optimist sees an opportunity in every calamity; A pessimist sees a calamity in every opportunity.

20

[[SoxFan, thanks for bringing some humanity and sanity to this thread. For me, humans, including strangers and relatives I don’t like, will always have more rights than animals, even my pets.]] Cheesehead
SoxFan is a fine and bright poster, but I’m afraid there was no shortage of humanity or sanity prior to his post.

Legal rights, sure (as I already emphasized). Beyond that, I can’t imagine what you mean.