There is no circumstance under which it’s acceptable for a white person to use that therm do refer to a black person. This is true even if, despite what you may have seen in certain movies, you’re performing fellatio on him.
Absolutely not at all, and I hope I haven’t implied otherwise. If I hear someone saying something about “niggers” I don’t think to myself “well, that guy probably isn’t racist, or is less racist, because maybe the people he’s calling niggers actually did one of seven different things which I can enumerate which make it appropriate to use that word”. If someone actually refers to someone as a nigger they are racist, period (barring incredibly contrived circumstances).
The reason I’ve been arguing, however, is that I object to overly-absolute statements being made, even on a side of an issue I generally agree with. I perceived many people in this thread as claiming that “nigger” has absolutely no connotations or implications other than just blackness, which I disagree with, in at least some contexts.
In other words, some people’s reaction to Annie X-Mas’s original comment was along the lines of:
(a) The fact that you used the word “nigger” strongly makes me suspect that you are racist, it’s a horrible hateful word to use, even in your thoughts
and
(b) Also I have absolutely no idea what you mean, because all “nigger” means is “black”, so it makes no sense to me for you to single out two people as particularly deserving of the word.
I agree with (a), but I think people were overstating (b).
see when I lived in various black foster homes I learned about the African American experience in American and my last foster home mr was a ww2 vet and lived in the south off and on afterwards so he was there for the 50s and 60s civil rights movement
So most of my friends were black in and out of school and I knew better than to even think of using that word but in the mid 90s the term "nigga " came into use among friends and neighbors which isnt an insult you mainly hear it when people are sitting around shooting the bs
homies bragging about how cool is his car is you know hes full of crap so you say "nigga please I know you got that from grandma and all it has is an am radio … " everyone laughs … now id I had sounded out an er then yeah thered be problems …
one of my foster bros owned a sports bar and if you were new to the bar lets just say you had to get used to our jokes …
I hope we can now agree that the thread has officially jumped the shark.
The only way I would know what you would mean if you called someone a nigger is if I knew the absolutely precise parameters of your personal racial topography and also whether you were currently pissed off.
If I shout “Jesus Fucking CHRIST” (which Asimovian will attest I have rather a tendency to do), you don’t know why I’m shouting it other than I’m angry or frustrated with something or someone. If you were standing right there watching, you may notice I just stubbed my toe and that’s why I was shouting, but if you just heard me from afar (I am loud), you would have no idea.
The minutia of how a racist thinks or feels are like shouts from afar. From where I’m standing, the only thing I can know is that the person is a racist and is using a slur about a black person. There is no other information conveyed. You can choose to believe that or not, but Jesus Fucking CHRIST, it’s the truth.
So we know that Annie has these two acquaintances that she believes are, uniquely, deserving of being referred to as niggers. Let’s say she knows five black couples in total, and describes them to us:
(1) A doctor and his stay at home wife, they always throw lovely dinner parties, where they entertain with tales of their latest travels to Europe
(2) A disabled US army vet and his wife. Both volunteer at the church, where she is notable for her gorgeous Sunday hats
(3) Two tech geeks with very poor social skills and bad hygiene, and she really kind of hates them
(4) Two poser hippies who are constantly talking her ear off about reducing their carbon footprint, but she secretly suspects they’re just doing it to virtue signal, and she really kind of hates them
(5) Two unemployed people, each with children from previous marriages. There are constantly people showing up at their house in the middle of the night and she thinks they might be drug dealers. They’re constantly complaining about how they’re trying to get more money out of the government, and playing loud profanity-laced-rap-music, and she really kind of hates them
You can place a bet as to which of those 5 is the couple that she’s talking about. If you win, you get $1,000,000. Is your reaction “well, that word just means blackness, and all five couples are black, so I will just roll a die and hope for the best” or maybe “well, that word means blackness but is more likely directed at someone you’re upset with, so I’ll randomly choose between 3, 4, and 5?”.
Because it’s obvious to me, so obvious that it’s not even worth remarking on, that she means something like (5)… people who she perceives as exhibiting the worst of the negative stereotypes associated with black people. I’m not excusing her phrasing thing the way she did. But I’m not pretending that I got absolutely no information out of the way she described things.
To approach it a slightly different way:
“I own five cars, but only one of them is an AUTOMOBILE” is a bizarrely confusing statement, because car and automobile are nearly perfect synonyms.
“I have five gay coworkers, but only one of them is a FAG” is (unless being said in a context among friends where obviously humor and irony make it appropriate etc) a hateful and homophobic thing to say, but one which does convey some meaning. If I then met those five gay coworkers, I would expect to be able to fairly easy guess which one was being singled out.
You keep making assertions like this, but I would not get the reasoning. I’d just guess whichever one she seemed to hate the most. It would have zero to do with the stereotype, just her level of vitriol. By the way, the person in my life who was most prone to use “nigger,” my former mother-in-law, probably applied it most to people she considered uppity. So for her, I’d guess the doctor.
I never realized how important it was to some people that certain racist terms were “only” applied to certain members of a race. Am I supposed to feel good about that or something? If not, why is it even a matter of discussion?
1500 years from now, when the Yondar Guardians from the Troidon star system are studying transcripts of our internet communications, this thread will baffle them. It probably has more usage of the n word than any other single place on the web. They will be perplexed and wonder if it was so taboo why did those humanoids use it so freely?
Assuming you’re responding to me, how could you conceivably have missed the number of times I’ve posted qualifications and disclaimers in this very thread stating precisely the opposite?
I still don’t understand in the slightest what you are trying to accomplish and why.
This thread has made me realize that, while the “N” word is still with us, many of the derivative terms have disappeared, which gives me some hope. I have not hear the term “N-lip” (referring to a certain style of smoking, usually a joint) or “N rigged” (referring to slipshod improvisation.)
Until today 
How about this: Annie tells you which number she considers niggers, and then you bet on whether or not they are black?
You have misconstrued (b). People are saying that a person does not have to meet any of the rather arbitrary qualifications that people are coming up with for the sub-set of black people who are more “nigger” than others. A person can and will be called “nigger” simply for being black. That is not all that “nigger” means, however. It is a hateful and derogatory term with a long and horrid history. “Nigger” does not equate simply to “black” in meaning.
How about consider this hypothetical, and which one you think Annie is talking about:
-
Two unemployed black people, each with children from previous marriages. There are constantly people showing up at their house in the middle of the night and she thinks they might be drug dealers. They’re constantly complaining about how they’re trying to get more money out of the government, and playing loud profanity-laced-rap-music, and she really kind of hates them.
-
Two unemployed white people, each with children from previous marriages. There are constantly people showing up at their house in the middle of the night and she thinks they might be drug dealers. They’re constantly complaining about how they’re trying to get more money out of the government, and playing loud profanity-laced-rap-music, and she really kind of hates them.
Notice any difference between the two couples?
Actually, scratch this, since I don’t know how to read.
Yes, of course obviously. I absolutely positive agree that the overriding essential component necessary for someone to be called “nigger” is being black, and that by itself is entirely sufficient in many/most situations.
I feel like people must think that somehow, by arguing about the very restricted thing I’m trying to argue about, I’m attempting to deny or downplay the above, which is certainly not my intention.
But, I do maintain that “I know 5 black people, but only one who is really a nigger”, while a HORRIBLY RACIST AND INEXCUSABLE THING TO SAY, does provide some meaning that is not purely coincidentally inside the head of the speaker (albeit imperfect). That doesn’t mean it’s OK to say that, WHICH IT IS NOT, or that I would ever say that, WHICH I WOULD NOT.
And I maintain that it may convey something to you, and you and the speaker may share that meaning, but what I hear is “I am a racist creep. I know 5 black people. One of them really pisses me off.”
And I should have made clear: “At any point, it may be another of the five I’m calling by that term.”