Then what are the differences? What stereotypes are about that slur but not about black people in general?
Putting aside the individual issue here, I feel that using the word mentally is better than using it out loud. It’s not good but it’s still an improvement.
I think it’s good for society if racists are afraid to be racist in public. I don’t think it says anything good about the racists.
That misconstrues the argument being made. The argument goes:
[ul]
[li]There are negative stereotypes about black people[/li][li]These stereotypes are not true of all or even most black people[/li][li]But they are true of some black people[/li][li]These particular black guys are that “some black people”[/li][/ul]
I’d rather they said it out loud so another person can hear it and that sparks a discussion that could lead to it not being heard at all b/c a mind’s been changed.
Also, geez **Annie **- that is some mental ugliness you got going on; I was taken aback to read what you wrote. If it’s in your head it’s in your vocabulary as a correct term, there’s no dancing around that fact.
I don’t think that’s the argument being made – Annie made a claim about stereotypes of/about that slur (or people described by that slur), not of/about black people in general. If that’s not what she meant, then she’s welcome to clarify.
Sorry if I wasn’t clear. As I understand her, Annie is saying that the term “nigger” refers to a negative stereotype of black people. She herself doesn’t agree that this negative stereotype fits all or most black people, but she does think it fits some black people (and, undoubtedly, some white people), and the term “nigger” with its stereotypical connotations would therefore apply to those specific people.
If that’s what she thinks, she’s dead wrong – the slur has always been about the characteristic of being black, not any other characteristic. And I see no indication or reason to believe she thinks the slur would, could, or should be applied to any non-black people. Further, all of that would be entirely contrary to her justification for her usage of the slur, which is about the norms of the time and place in which she grew up (when she grew up, it only applied to black people, and not just to black people with negative or undesirable traits).
No one thinks the term could apply to non-black people. I don’t see how you’re taking that from what I wrote.
At one time most or all black people were thought to fit those stereotypes, hence the association of the term for black people with those stereotypes. That never applied to whites.
No, it’s offensive because it’s a derogatory word and all you have to do to be called it is to be black.
Yep, I’m familiar with that. That’s his opinion (as a comedian), not mine (as a poster on this MB). Is it your opinion?
It was the “and, undoubtedly, some white people” followed by “…would therefore apply to those specific people”. Thanks for clarifying, though.
I see no reason to believe that the slur had anything to do with stereotypes. The slur was about being black, not about characteristics associated with being black. Their humanity and personhood weren’t taken away (not literally, but functionally) by society because of negative behavior, or false negative stereotypes, but rather because it was ‘necessary’ to do so for a slave society to function without constant uprisings. They had to be dehumanized in order to justify slavery – thus dehumanizing slurs, relegation to vermin/livestock status, etc. The stereotypes were no doubt a part of this, but they absolutely did not come first (and of course, had no basis – at the time, white people were a far, far greater threat to black people than the reverse).
It’s your “hence the association…” that I’m disagreeing with. Slurs don’t follow stereotypes, or aren’t created because of stereotypes.
A white person could share the characteristics of that stereotype. But they wouldn’t fit the stereotype, because the stereotype happens to be about black people.
The slurs conjure up the stereotypes. That’s one reason they’re offensive. (That’s also the premise of the Chris Rock sketch linked earlier.) It makes no difference which came first.
Saying a racial slur only applies to a certain subset of a race is a statement that those people deserve to be called by a racial slur. It’s a claim that racial slurs are justifiable, and their use is fair and unexceptionable.
I strongly disagree. The slur is offensive because it was used to dehumanize black people and indicate their inferior status.
How did the slur serve to dehumanize black people and emphasize their inferior status (other than by association with negative stereotypes)?
Inherent in its use is that black people were de facto less than. It was this assumption that helped justify slavery. You didn’t need to explain why they were less than, they just were. Sure you can trot out all sorts of negative stereotypes (stupid, lazy, oversexed etc) but it’s really irrelevant. The first black doctor or lawyer was just as much a n***er as anyone.
Once you decide someone is less than, you find the reasons to back it up.
Then as now, the use revealed everything about the character of the speaker, and nothing about the character of the target. Calling someone a nigger says nothing about them.
Yes, I share Chris Rock’s opinion that there is, or can be, a difference between being a nigger and being a black person.
And some of the point of the monologue is that it is not the case that “all you have to do to be called it is to be black”. Chris Rock is not calling all black people niggers. And I thought he made the distinction rather clear.
Regards,
Shodan
The only “negative” characteristic the slur was associated with was being black. Society at large had been convinced that this quality alone was enough to render one inferior. Similar to what another poster said, an educated and erudite black person was just as much a nigger as a field hand - in fact this would have been a threat, and therefore such a person would have been treated even worse.
I believe that’s a more modern construction, not the 1950-60 attitude she says she’s parroting.
It’s that attitude that got Obama called one (such as in the bumper stickers about “Renigging” the White House in the 2012 election.