Last estimates of the London protests had between 500 - 700 people, it’s hard to tell because people kept coming and going. Definitely over 200 though, there was that many people on Tottenham Court road alone, and that was by far the smaller protest.
Collection of photos on flickr of the London protests there’s quite a few there.
This is a pretty good video montage, check the policeman at the end who has nothing but kind words for Anonymous.
Yeah, I’ve read and heard all the arguments about how awful, terrible, icky-ooky-boo-bah-bad the Scientos are, and to a large extent I agree with said arguments. But there are a couple of things about this thing, this bunch of formerly uninvolved parties taking it jupon themselves to meddle with and chastise the bad guys, which totally don’t sit right with me although nobody else seems to have noticed.
1: the anons strike me as a bunch of common or garden variety jocks and bullies, but jocks and bullies who have found a safe target to pick on – one that the majority, or "all right-thinking well-informed people"agree is reprehensible, and so the anon gang risks no censure by attacking them. “After all, everyone knows they’re wrong!” The anons claim they’re harassing the Scientologists because they’re [Scientos] doing bad and deserve it, and so get the approval of the majority for their [anon’s] behaviour – but really, they’re doing it mainly because they’re bullies, and harassing people is what bullies do – because they like it. Their certainty that they’ve got the masses on their side gives them a righteousness which stinks like a dead ratfish to my nostrils, and strikes me as chickenshit besides. I have had a good deal of experience with just that mindset, and it disgusts me.
2: an axiom I learned from a very wise and canny and compassionate person: *Freedom is for the assholes too, that’s the whole point.
I apologize if my language is too salty for the Great Debates forum, but I’m not aiming it at any particular posters or their conflicting opinions; also, I’m quite aware of my way of thinking being in the minority here, but it’s a matter of long hard consideration on my part; so anyone who wants to jump up and tell me how very very wrong I am now will probably be wasting their time.
CoS routinely quashes their parishoners freedom to make choices.
I’m as hippy-dippy live and let live as the next SoCal liberal, but their actions frequently cross a line for me.
Although some of Anon’s members are just in it for the lulz (which basically amounts to being in it to fuck with other people), the main message being endorsed by the group at large (and the long-time CoS opponents that have jumped on board) is that the Church needs to go because of its long, ongoing abusive policies, which have ruined many lives, both in the Church and those that have criticized it. This is a group that has, honest-to-goodness, tried to infiltrate the U.S. government! It’s also had specific project names for destroying certain critics (i.e. Operation Freakout)! The actual followers are often the biggest victims, and the majority of the Anon movement seems to recognize that; to get them out of the Church and practicing Scientology outside it (like the Free Zoners) is one of the long-term goals.
Sure freedom is for arseholes too, but that doesn’t mean everyone is entitled to do what they want. I think a distinction needs to be made between freedom of belief i.e. their beliefs in Xenu, the way to salvation and the way to live your lives and the way they promote them.
For example the London protests have crystallised upon 3 key points that the protests are intended to focus upon and would like the Government to take action upon.
**Their tax exempt status ** while the church doesn’t have charitable status it has still been able to gain non-profit status which means they’re VAT exempt and in 2006 gained a massive tax rebate of £4.1 million. I believe that as they are a profit making entity they shouldn’t be entitled to this as it is an effective government subsidy.
State support for Narconon which is a Scientology funded and run Drugs program that attempts to promote itself in schools and prisons throughout the country. This is not a free service, schools have to pay for it and many don’t do thorough background checks on whose services it’s relying on and it uses theories and techniques based on scientology’s beliefs which are unproven, sometimes harmful and entirely ineffective. Therefore we would like the government and local authorities to stop using this organisation in our schools
And the third organisation is Criminon (now operating under ‘Second Chance’) which has much of the same problems as Narconon but has much less of a presence in the UK, I believe and therefore has much less focus in the protests.
I find it hard to believe that the legal exercise of democratic influence on a corporation can be considered bullying. And who are you to judge that they are doing it because 'harassing people is what bullies do".
And besides here in the UK we put limits on what profit making entities are allowed to do for there shareholders. We think Scientology has crossed that line.
Perhaps you can expand more on why you get this sense of smugness? Does it carry over onto other protests or causes too, or is this specifically a Scientology/Anonymous thing?
DLuxN8R-13:
Fortunately, thanks to the internet, you can visit the Enturbulation forums (like I did before I made up my mind) and come back with some valid criticism based on facts. The rest of us dopers are more than willing to agree with you if you’re right.
Long hard consideration of what, exactly? This forum is about fighting ignorance, not building yourself a fictional universe where you can be the valiant underdog, standing firm for the defenseless victims of the tyranny of the majority, because you alone know best and we’re all blind bully-supporters :rolleyes:
Perhaps I’m wasting my time trying to convince you to open your eyes and mind and consider that maybe everybody thinks you’re wrong because you’re wrong. But I trust others will open their eyes and conclude you’re well-intentionned but deluded and arrogant in your thinking process.
