Another "kid gets a hold of parents loaded gun" thread

[muldoonthief]

@Anaamika

I admit to a total knee-jerky reaction when it comes to the NRA. I am not sure I’d want a bunch of huge gun proponents - sometimes, it seems, to the point of insanity - handling it. Really I’d like some third party middle ground, but that’s not likely to happen.

It would be best if the schools were to do it, yes.

Unfortunately, there isn’t a middle ground. I’ve watched the Eddie Eagle video the NRA gave me, and there’s no political message whatsoever. You could easily substitute “rat trap” or “dead person” for “gun” and the video would still make perfect sense. Don’t touch it, go away, tell an adult what you found.

[Sailboat]

@Rand_Rover

So, OP, I guess you start a pit thread every time a kid drowns in a pool? That happens way more than an accidental shooting (by at least an order of magnitude).

@Damuri_Ajashi

Statistically, you are more likely to have a member of your household harmed if you have a pool.

Can we show these statistics? I did a little lunch-hour rummaging in the CDC website and so far all I found was stats for the general population, not kids:

[The Three Leading Causes of Injury Death — United States, 1979–2006](the Three Leading Causes of Injury† Death — United States, 1979–2006)

That says it was car accidents>guns>poisoning until very recently, when poisoning rose to be number 2 above guns at number 3.

Obviously those stats merely hint at the ranking of gun deaths among children. Some caveats include:

[ul]
[li]does not specifically apply to children[/li][li]it’s not clear that drowning is considered a category of “injury death” for this comparison[/li][li]the gun deaths appear to include “operations of war,” which I don’t think anyone would include in this argument[/li][/ul]

[Bryan_Ekers]

@IvoryTowerDenizen

Thanks! I appreciate the effort to educate!

If I may add some minor details to Zeriel’s excellent summary, shotguns can fire “shot” (i.e. a bundled set of small pellets) or “slugs” (i.e. fairly large bullets).

And .22 is the smallest common caliber for rifles, but one can get a .17 from Remington.

[pbbth]

I think teaching gun safety in school is an excellent idea but I don’t know how they would work that into an already busy school year and many parents would be furious. I wonder if they could do something in the summer where they taught not only gun safety but also first aid, proper use of fire extinguishers, etc. and children who participated were given a little extra credit in every class once their school year started back up again.

[Bryan_Ekers]

Heck, I’d like to see high scool juniors or seniors getting mandatory classes in how to handle credit cards, how to fill out tax returns, what a mortgage is, etc.

[Boyo_Jim]

@pbbth

I think teaching gun safety in school is an excellent idea …

I think this is the worst educational idea I’ve ever heard. Just what every school needs – an armory.

Wanna be ‘safer’ and not store guns at school? Sure! Kids, bring your guns in from home.

“Little Ricky, you’ve been bad and you’re going to have to go and sit in detention class after school. But first, let’s practice cleaning that Remington shotgun.”

[Airman_Doors_USAF]

@Boyo_Jim

I think this is the worst educational idea I’ve ever heard. Just what every school needs – an armory.

Wanna be ‘safer’ and not store guns at school? Sure! Kids, bring your guns in from home.

“Little Ricky, you’ve been bad and you’re going to have to go and sit in detention class after school. But first, let’s practice cleaning that Remington shotgun.”

Who said anything about an armory?

Perhaps you can read the thread before jumping to conclusions.

[Boyo_Jim]

“Teaching gun safety in school”. Where are the guns kept?

[running_coach]

@Boyo_Jim

“Teaching gun safety in school”. Where are the guns kept?

You can teach gun safety with a squirt gun.

There are any number of “training guns”, non-firing replicas used for tactical scenarios.

Example.

[Airman_Doors_USAF]

Fine, since you won’t read anything else:

The NRA does something called the Eddie Eagle program, which does go to schools if they are invited. No guns are brought to the school, no incompetent DEA agents are involved, it’s straight education on what to do if you find a gun. I think that schools could do the same thing at negligible cost.

FWIW I’ve sat in on an “Eddie Eagle” demonstration, and if anything I found it to be somewhat anti-gun. The NRA instructors were very clear and unambiguous about the danger of guns, they did not even once sell up hunting or target shooting; it simply didn’t enter into the equation. The message was almost pounded into the kids - “don’t touch - run away - tell an adult.” I spoke to the folks running the program afterwards and commented that they showed no positive gun use, and the man I spoke to got very serious, and said (words to the effect of) “The single best PR the NRA can have is fewer kids being injured or killed in accidents. My single most important goal with the NRA is to make sure no kid ever gets hurt picking up a gun and having an accident.” And that made a lot of sense - it’s in the NRA’s best interest to help stop the accidents.

Unfortunately, there isn’t a middle ground. I’ve watched the Eddie Eagle video the NRA gave me, and there’s no political message whatsoever. You could easily substitute “rat trap” or “dead person” for “gun” and the video would still make perfect sense. Don’t touch it, go away, tell an adult what you found.

There you go.

[Czarcasm]

@Airman_Doors_USAF

Fine, since you won’t read anything else:
There you go.

Definitely siding with you on this one. Boyo Jim, why don’t you read up on the Eddie Eagle program before you criticize it.

[Boyo_Jim]

A gun safety course consists of telling you not to touch a gun? I did not picture that. Well, that’s very different. Carry on.

Really, why does one need the NRA to come in and say it? Even the dumbest gym teacher can manage this.

[Airman_Doors_USAF]

…and I addressed that early on, too:

We have created an interesting problem with regard to guns as they relate to children. There is little to no discussion of guns in schools, and what little there is is entirely negative. Rather than having a meaningful educational discussion, even something as little as “if you see a gun, don’t touch it, walk away, and tell an adult”, it usually goes “guns are bad” and that’s the end of it. Any doubt about that should be dispelled by the application of zero-tolerance policies for something as insignificant as a drawing of a gun. Thus there is no room for discussion. Guns are bad, end of story.

How is a gun owner able to teach their child the proper thing to do when the child has been repeatedly taught that guns are a forbidden subject? I can’t even begin to tell you how much time and effort it took for me to get through that wall to have any sort of meaningful discussion about gun safety with my son.

[Hal_Briston]

@Boyo_Jim

Really, why does one need the NRA to come in and say it? Even the dumbest gym teacher can manage this.

One doesn’t. From the Eddie Eagle site:

Anyone may teach The Eddie Eagle GunSafe® Program, and NRA membership is not required.

[IvoryTowerDenizen]

@Bryan_Ekers

If I may add some minor details to Zeriel’s excellent summary, shotguns can fire “shot” (i.e. a bundled set of small pellets) or “slugs” (i.e. fairly large bullets).

And .22 is the smallest common caliber for rifles, but one can get a .17 from Remington.

There’s not gonna be a quiz later… will there?

[Bryan_Ekers]

@IvoryTowerDenizen

There’s not gonna be a quiz later… will there?

Indeed there will be.

Failures will be shot.

[muldoonthief]

@Bryan_Ekers

Indeed there will be.

Failures will be shot.

With a 22mm assault shotgun.

[thelurkinghorror]

Sorry, a few nitpicks.

@Zeriel

Okay, briefly, because some guys get impolite about this:

“assault weapon” is a legal term only, and means a gun with military-style fittings. Not really deadlier in any way than a standard hunting rifle, just has things like folding stock, scope or silencer attachment points, etc.

Yes, and the term is usually used by people who don’t know what they’re talking about, but know that we need to get rid of them. An assault weapon has several features which are mostly cosmetic or otherwise don’t affect the effectiveness of the weapon.

@Zeriel

“shot gun” is a long gun that fires biggish plastic shells full (usually) of little-to-medium-sized metal pellets. Good for hunting deer or anything smaller.

The shells aren’t fired, but remain in the chamber and the shot comes out the end. They can also fire slugs (think giant bullet). Some also have rifled barrels for special slugs, which blurs the line somewhat, but the caliber/gauge is the main dividing line.

@Zeriel

“assault rifle” means more than one bullet per trigger pull. not generally legal, but can in fact be chambered in .22 just like a…

The common definition I’ve heard is that as originally planned, these were designed to use an intermediate cartridge (e.g. effective against humans but smaller than WWII-style rounds like .30-06) and has a detachable magazine. With “assault-style” semi-auto rifles in the US, some people use the term for both, while others insist that they need to be select fire (full/semi-auto).

Now that you can get other calibers like .22, with the GSG offerings, or even convert your .223 AR15 to a .22 with a simple upper receiver change, the term has become more flexible.

[Bryan_Ekers]

@muldoonthief

With a 22mm assault shotgun.

With scary-looking features like a bayonet lug, flash suppressor and pistol grip.

[muldoonthief]

@Bryan_Ekers

With scary-looking features like a bayonet lug, flash suppressor and pistol grip.

That’s “bayonet lugnut”. At least according to the liberal media.