Another Kim Davis Question

Does Kim Davis have the ***authority ***to fire all of the deputies in her office who don’t agree with her? I’m not saying they couldn’t immediately sue the County and win their jobs back in court, but does she have the power to fire them and walk them out the door if she so chooses as a delaying tactic? She could come up with phony reasons that have nothing to do with their willingness to grant marriage licenses to LBGTQ couples. I’m not that familiar with how things work in Kentucky.

Neither is Kim Davis, apparently. :smiley:

I’d guess that as head of the department she could terminate any or all underlings, but the backlash from unions and the state itself would probably be immediate and result in a negation from higher authority.

Really, this whole clusterf*ck is so simple - Kim Davis, citizen, has the right to any religious beliefs and exercise thereof she cares to have. Kim Davis, elected clerk, has the right to any religious beliefs she cares to have… and the obligation to fulfill the legal requirements of her position. If she can’t reconcile the latter two… convert or quit.

Doubtful, in many jurisdictions government employees are often only fired after extensive investigations (which can sometimes take years) and this is worse if they belong to a labor union.

The same rules that make it hard for her to be fired for not doing her job prevent her from firing subordinates for properly doing their jobs against her wishes.

I myself am a state government employee (not in Kentucky) married to a county government employee who is friends with federal employees. All of us work in similar cultures so I assume her county isn’t much different.

In my particular agency, malcontents or those accused of wrongdoing are often reassigned to a lower-paid position of less responsibility (permanently or for the duration of an investigation) in lieu of termination.

Wrong in at least one aspect, Davis can’t be fired period. She is an elected official and can only be impeached by the state legislature.

Also, I am a state employee and have seen many a non-union employee let go with no notice. Despite what many would like to believe there are not always any more protections than in the private sector. The clerks in Rowan county may or may not have such protections. I would guess we find out for sure on Monday.

From here.(Page 73 in the document.)

No mention of who does the hiring or firing.

nm

Thanks for pointing that out, I wasn’t aware of that fact.

Being in a union is probably the big difference, yes.

Ky, being an “At Will” state, most employees can be fired for any reason, or NO reason.

Obvious exception being fired for being part of a “protected class”

SO IMHO Yes, she can.

Unless of course they are unionized … then not so easy

IMHO no she can’t since she is effectively firing them for different religious beliefs.

That is something that would have to be determined if the deputy clerks chose to contest their firings (since religious beliefs are a protected status.)

The question at hand is, does she have the right to fire them at all without a hearing or some other formal action.

IANAKentuckyL but in this section of the Kentucky statutes, it looks like county and municipal employees are covered by the state employment code, which appears to require a hearing before an employee can be terminated.

Or Civil Service.

That definition specifically applies only to health insurance.

Kentucky state jobs include both classified and unclassified positions, where classified means civil service and the whole panoply of protections, and unclassified means “serves at the pleasure of” and can be dismissed without notice or recourse. From my admittedly limited experience, county employees working under elected officials (such as deputies in county clerk’s offices) are more likely to fall under the latter rather than the former sort of system, but I haven’t found anything for sure about Rowan County.

I yield to slash2k.

Then how about this, she would be firing them for committing legal acts. In fact, acts they were ordered to do by a judge. There’s gotta be some sort of protection for that.

but does she have the power to fire them and walk them out the door if she so chooses as a delaying tactic?

So she says, “You’re all fired!” and walks out the door.

Thirty seconds later, her replacement steps up and says, “No you’re not!”

I can’t imagine there is anything she can do that someone else can’t undo or prevent from going through in some way. You’re not fired until payroll believes it :slight_smile:

What replacement?

She holds her position unless impeached by the state legislature (which isn’t sitting until January), or the end of her term.

Judge Bunning’s order specifically and explicitly enjoins Davis to not interfere with her deputy clerks (or whatever their title is) in the future performance of their duties. So whatever other proper mechanisms do or don’t exist to protect the deputy clerks’ jobs, there’s that. If anyone issues another marriage license to a gay couple and Davis takes any action to interfere with that – presumably this would mean anything up to and including firing someone – then the judge will apparently want to have a little discussion with her about that. If Davis tries to explain that the firing was for some other unrelated reason, well, the judge gets to decide if he believes that.

So let’s say Davis gets back and refuses to issue licenses and preventing her deputies from doing it or even firing “disloyal” deputies. How long could/would the judge hold her for contempt since she clearly was not coerced enough.

Indefinitely, until her term runs out.