Another N word thread.

[iwire]

*Originally posted by tomndebb *
**For the same reason that, when I was in high school, the guys whose names ended -sky and -cki were allowed to use Polack while the rest of us (with Irish, German, French, or English names) were liable to get slammed into a locker or flipped over a desk for the same usage. A couple of generations earlier, the same would have been true about calling my uncle a Mick. (And for the same reason that lots of folks in the U.S.–particularly in the Northeast–refer to themselves as Yankee with no feeling of shame, despite the fact that it was invented as a dismissive epithet.)

Hurtful names and words are often taken by the those at whom they are aimed and used familiarly within the group as a means of drawing the poison out of them. And, as my examples show, there may come a point when sufficient time has elapsed that the original insult is meaningless–a point that has certainly not occurred regarding the word nigger in the U.S. (Outside the U.S., where the word developed in different ways in different societies, it does not always carry the same sting that it does, here.)
In addition, there are a lot of black people who hold that the use of nigger or nigga among black youth is a fairly stupid thng to do, but I will let that group work out their own rules without trying to dictate what is “proper” to them.

I doubt that you would be shot. However, your motives would certainly be suspect for any number of reasons and you would probably find it difficult to obtain funding.

Regarding your first question: Both of those groups are designed to fund scholarships for people who are less likely to be able to find money for education. Many ethnic groups have similar associations. (In fact, whites often point to the efforts of those ethnic support groups, that allowed the other groups to escape the original ethnic ghettoes, as examples of what blacks should be doing–and now we are going to criticize blacks for doing that? OK)

Beyond that, the beauty pageants were founded at a time when blacks were not allowed to compete. Once blacks were admitted to the larger “American” contests, the organizers and sponsors saw no reason to put themselves out of jobs by disbanding–particularly when they were providing a valuable service by channeling funds to kids for scholarships. The same impetus has given rise to a number of Hispanic and Asian beauty contests. There used to be more Irish and Polish and Hungarian beauty contests, but they tended to break up as their core constituency dispersed throughout the general population. **

Thanks for taking a crack at it instead of the easy target (me)

[tomndebb]

You’re welcome, but does

taking a crack at it

indicate that you are unpersuaded? The fact that there are many ethnic scholarship funds and several ethnic beauty pageants should be a pretty good indication that it is no less “socialy acceptable” for groups other than blacks to engage in those activities.

(Actually, I think that NO ONE would give you grief for starting a United White Collage fund, but you would probably find better funding if you went for multi-media, rather than limiting yourself to collages.)

[tracer]

*Originally posted by Sinful *
**Why is it socialy acceptable for a black person to use a derogatory slur(nigga) to his fellow men. but a white person cannot use the same term with the same deffenition without it seeming bad? **

For the same reason that computer programmers can call each other “geeks” or “nerds” with impunity, but if an outsider calls them “geeks” or “nerds” they take offense – because the use of the term by an outsider is seen as painting all computer programmers with the same geeky or nerdy brush.

[iwire]

*Originally posted by tomndebb *
**You’re welcome, but does indicate that you are unpersuaded? The fact that there are many ethnic scholarship funds and several ethnic beauty pageants should be a pretty good indication that it is no less “socialy acceptable” for groups other than blacks to engage in those activities.

(Actually, I think that NO ONE would give you grief for starting a United White Collage fund, but you would probably find better funding if you went for multi-media, rather than limiting yourself to collages.) **

I kept it short because I said I was “Bailing,” but now that you asked.

I think your response was excellent it kept to subject and not emotion. I think you pretty much hit the nail on the head in reference to the pageants.

I am not persuaded that the media would not have a ball with me if I started a United White Collage Fund. (To me, just saying that sounds ugly) I think the response to this and the other threads on the subject demonstrate how much of a minefield it would be.

[Avalonian]

As I usually do, I will recommend that anyone actually interested in the topic of the OP read Nigger: The Strange Career of a Troublesome Word. It is the best book I know of dealing specifically with this topic, tracing the origins of the word and its use through the last couple centuries, including discussion of its modern uses. It addresses, specifically, the apparent “contradiction” the OP mentions, and deals with it very even-handedly. Quite enlightening, and highly recommended.

I recommend reading this book, then the threads monstro pointed out… then come back and see if there’s much left to discuss.

[Biggirl]

Well iwire, the reason posters in this thread jumped on you was because you asked a question, received an answer and then said that wasn’t the question you asked.

tom gave you the very same answer that sugaree did-- it is not socially unacceptable to have white scholarships and beauty pagents-- you gracefully accepted tom’s answer while accusing sugaree of not reading the question correctly.
Look at the non-outrage caused by Miss Italy Usa, the absolute lack of furor over Miss Irish American[sup]*[/sup], and the really-don’t-give-a-hoot attitude towards this whole bunch of Asian scholarships.

[sup]*[/sup]Warning! Really annoying midi music!

[Homebrew]

<snort>

“Multi-media”
You’re funny, tom~. Even moreso when it continued the whoosh the second time around.

[iwire]

*Originally posted by Homebrew *
**<snort>

“Multi-media”
You’re funny, tom~. Even moreso when it continued the whoosh the second time around. **

It was funny, but I addressed “Collage” my second post in on this thread.

Sorry no whoosh

[Chaco]

For the life of me I can’t remember who said this, but I remember some rap star being interviewed and him being asked about the use of the word nigga by not only African Americans but also by other ethnicities. His response was that there is a difference between nigga and nigger. He said that if you listen, you will not hear people calling each other nigger, they will say nigga.

I personally find both of those words worthy of cringing when I hear them but nowadays I hear Latinos, Asians, and even Whites kids calling each other niggas.

[Homebrew]

*Originally posted by iwire *
**I am not persuaded that the media would not have a ball with me if I started a United White Collage Fund. **

So it was on purpose the second time? yeah, right.

[LostOne]

*Originally posted by Sinful *
**Why is it socialy acceptable for a black person to use a derogatory slur(nigga) to his fellow men. but a white person cannot use the same term with the same deffenition without it seeming bad? **

“It’s ok for Richard Pryor or Eddie Murphey to say it. Why? Because we know they’re not racist… they’re niggers.” - George Carlin

Other than that I think the answers been summed up rather well.

Ok… so maybe this isn’t the best thread for my first post but with a line like that how could I resist? Of course now that I think of it with all the previous threads mentioned I’m sure someone nabbed it from me

[Hentor_the_Barbarian]

Sinful, based on your logic, there should be nothing wrong with using the word. I recommend that you commence to doing so all the time, as much as possible. Hey, if you get any trouble from anybody for it, just fire back with your well-reasoned argument, “but so-and-so said it, too!” I am sure you’ll do just fine, Danger Dan.

[Virgowitch]

*Originally posted by BURNER *
**I call it like I see it. The word “nigger” has its uses when descrieing people. It doesnt make you a racist because you use it. Its just a friggin word for christ sake!! I will give you and example: If I am talking about Martin Luther King,Al Sharpton,Clarence Thomas,Johhny Cochran or Opra I say "African american or black person. If I am talking about Sherry Murphy , the black woman who starver the 3 little boys in New Jersy, or people like this --> http://www.eastandard.net/headlines/news0701200301.htm who go on killing rampages l tend to use the word nigger. It is just a descriptive term. **

Me too, but I never say “African American.” My black friends call themselves, and want to be called black.

[Badtz_Maru]

*Originally posted by Sinful *
**Why is it socialy acceptable for a black person to use a derogatory slur(nigga) to his fellow men. but a white person cannot use the same term with the same deffenition without it seeming bad? **

For the same reason it’s OK for me to call my friend a ‘cracka’, but it wouldn’t be cool if a black guy called him that.

[Virgowitch]

I come from an odd social group where we actually compliment each other rather than insult each other. I think it could catch on. And let me tell you something; no man I ever knew called his lover a “bitch” without the relationship ending.

[kniz]

*Originally posted by Badtz Maru *
**For the same reason it’s OK for me to call my friend a ‘cracka’, but it wouldn’t be cool if a black guy called him that. **

When I grew up in Atlanta, there were no big league teams south or west of St. Louis, but we had the Southern League (AA). Our team was the: Atlanta Crackers a farm team of the **Boston Braves **. For that reason, I have trouble taking the term as offensive, but recognize it as such when it is used that way.

[you_with_the_face]

by BURNER’

If I am talking about Martin Luther King,Al Sharpton,Clarence Thomas,Johhny Cochran or Opra I say "African american or black person. If I am talking about Sherry Murphy , the black woman who starver the 3 little boys in New Jersy, or people like this --> http://www.eastandard.net/headlines/news0701200301.htm who go on killing rampages l tend to use the word nigger. It is just a descriptive term.

A descriptive term for what? What name do you feel compelled to use in describing Timothy McVeigh and that white lady who killed her five kids? Does “nigger” readily come to mind?

by Virgowitch:

Me too, but I never say “African American.” My black friends call themselves, and want to be called black.

Do these “friends” know that you use the word nigger? Maybe you should inform them of this, just in case they don’t know. It may be the impetus for a very interesting discussion.

[Virgowitch]

>Do these “friends” know that you use the word nigger?<

They use it more than I do.

[you_with_the_face]

ywtf:
>Do these “friends” know that you use the word nigger?<

Virgowitch:
They use it more than I do.

But do they know that you use it?

[Virgowitch]

They are black people who know what a nigger is and avoid them the way a regular gay man might avoid a flaming queen. Why? Because they don’t like to associate with vulgar caricatures.