Another of God's great works! [Haiti earthquake]

This is extraordinary stuff.

You have just forfeit your right to call anyone else’s writing turgid by your use of “controvert” in the face of perfect Anglo-Saxon alternatives. I am confident that you are familiar with the word “deny”, for example.

Sadly, I must relinquish the gold star I won in the pointless Latinate/Greek word contest over to you. Euge.

This thread became even more puerile after your prompting. At least before, it was an honest exchange of opinion by people without your unmerited philosophical pretenses. It is clear that you enjoy talking about ideas. This is laudatory and I am proud of you. But it is not clear that you actually can; name dropping ancient philosophers does not elevate the discussion but pejorates it and confuses the very people you seem to want to educate. A chimp can read Nietzsche.

I may in fact be no better than a pretentious second rate undergraduate. But at least I read the books assigned in class and engage with the ideas in a genuine way. Most importantly, I more or less get what I am talking about right. You, on the other hand, could not tell if I was with Seneca or against him. You further concocted a risible commentary on a philosophy you couldn’t manage to make sense of even with all of the resources of the internet at your disposal. It is entirely possible that I express myself like someone whose knowledge is no deeper than the Stanford Encyclopedia. But for all of your authoritative-sounding rhetoric, you can’t even manage that. POE “gambits” indeed. You are an empty vessel.

I regret that I used hostile language in arguing with you. I regret more that I even bothered to engage you in the first place. I can and do talk about the authors any time I like with my friend who edits critical editions of Seneca. But I talked about it here because I actually thought someone might be interested. I should have known that I would be set up for ridicule and discussion in bad faith. I am relieved that your clumsy and inept mockery has not exactly shaken my foundation.

Aristotle was not Belgian. The central message of Buddhism is not “Every man for himself.” And the London Underground is not a political movement.

I believe in God.

I also know that fault lines in the Teutonic plates cause earthquakes. Maybe God created fault lines like the highway dept. lays lines in the pavement to take great shocks.

Without fault lines in the Teutonic plates the earth may well just fold in on itself! God thinks of everything and I have full trust in his design.

God is the worlds scape goat but that is OK he has big shoulders.

Without permission I’d like to post a quote from a restricted blog:

So, the Germans are at it again, huh?

Must be one of those new European place settings for believers only.

:wink:

Stop blaming my people! :smiley:

OMG!! :smack: unbelievable!! I CAN NOT believe people actually watch the 700Club or whatever show starring this man~ Pat Robertson & folks actually listen 2 what he has to say:confused: AND BELIEVES ANY OF THE BS? IF THEY WERE ONLY WANTING TO AMUSE THEMSELVES BY LISTENING TO HIS outrageous “true stories” THEN I can see where they find humor in his ignorance or his intelligent way 2 get ignorant people to send him money! :rolleyes:

Assuming for a moment that this argument is serious…it doesn’t work.
The idea that earthquakes are in some sense necessary is inconsistent with the popularly-held attributes of god, such as omnipotence and omnibenevolence.
God could have made a world that did not require earthquakes to function.

And you meant “tectonic” plates.

The argument wasn’t serious.

I always wondered why they call earth quakes “natural disasters”. If they are natural then why are they someones fault?

Why do people always believe that Pat Robertson in any way represents most believers? 99% of us find him as delusional as the rest of you.

I don’t believe anyone has said they think Pat Robertson is representative.

That explains why no one watches his show, and no one ever asks for his opinion on national news programs.

Right?

God takes credit for (or is credited for) lots of natural stuff. All of it, in fact, from evolution to when it rains. Some of us just think it’s fair that if you get to give him credit for the good natural stuff, we get to credit him for the bad natural stuff.

Like most good atheists, when I heard about the terrible situation in Haiti, I did not waste time on my knees praying to a nonexistent magic guy in the sky. Instead, I dug deep into my pockets and gave generously.

But then I heard about some Bishop saying a mass for the Haitians, and about another religious leader urging us to pray for them, and it got me to wondering.

Supposing, just supposing, that a God does exist. If we postulate the omnipotent, single God of the Abrahamic religions, we are left with the following absurdity. Since God controlls everything, and since human beings are not in any way responsible for earthquakes, then God is responsible for this disaster. In fact, I am willing to bet that any number of insurance companies will quickly affirm that this is indeed an “act of God”.

So how can it possibly make sense to pray for the hundreds of thousands of victims in Haiti, when the God you are praying to is the guy who caused that situation in the first place?

What am I supposed to pray for? That their wounds will heal, that food and water will reach them? But God is the person who put them in their present position.

Evidently, he wants those poor people to suffer like that, since he caused their suffering. Or is he just a clumsy goof?

Presumably, the people who were killed and wounded when the National Cathedral and other churches came crashing down on them were there asking him to help them and because they had been told he was a loving God. I think he has made his feelings for them pretty plain, don’t you!!!

It really does not seem to make a lot of sense, does it? Well, let’s see if there isn’t another hypothesis that explains the known facts. Hmmmmm.

Wait a second! What if there is no God? The forces of nature and the laws of physics are neither good nor bad, for us or against us. The same phenomenon of combustion that keeps your family cozy warm in the winter was also used by the Inquisition to heat up torture instruments. Fire is neither good nor bad. Earthquakes and the movement of the Earth’s tectonic plates are morally neutral. These forces do not know and do not care whom they are hurting.

It is up to US, as human beings, to care about one another. How about taking the money it cost to heat up that Cathedral (in Montreal in January) and sending it to Haitian relief?

There are few theists who give God the credit for natural disasters, or in fact for anything bad that may happen - despite the fact they are quick to assign blame for good things that may happen. The stock market goes up? Thank God! The stock market goes down? Bad luck/market forces. Your house gets destroyed by an earthquake? Tectonic forces and shoddy construction. Your house doesn’t fall? Thank God! You get buried in a rockslide? Bad luck. A rescue worker digs you out? Thank God! (Good construction and the efforts of the rescue worker may, or may not, get credit too.)

This sort of thing is obviously the result of some rather shaky circular logic; God does good things, therefore all good things (and only the good things) are done by God. As an atheist I don’t give this much of a pass, but it’s pretty common nonetheless.

So, for people like this, you pray because you want the assistance of your benevolent God, and hope that while he’s too shy or disisnterested in non-believers to preemptively help and prevent the (naturally-caused) earthquake itself, perhaps if he’s asked or reminded or if he’s ego-fed enough he might bother to get off his duff and dispense some of those blessings that he’s been holding back until now.

God had nothing to do with the earthquakes. This was no “divine retribution” for sinfulness, this was no “righteous wrath”, there was none of that nonsense. It was simple geology - plate movement.

If people pray for Haiti, there’s no harm in it. Even better, I bet there are a lot of churches taking up collections for Haiti. There’s certainly no harm in that.

And I would hazard some guesses of my own …
That Robertson is a raving lunatic and anyone who takes him seriously is just as crazy.

I never said it was religious wrath that caused the earthquake or that it weas divine retribution. You are building straw men and then destroying them.

What I said was that the omnipotent God postulated by Christianity and the other montheist religions is obviously in charge of all that happens. Jesus himself says that not a sparrow falls but that God knows about it. Presumably, he understands plate tectonics as well as dead sparrows. An omnipotent, omniscient God KNEW that earthquake was going to happen, could have stopped it but didn’t. So the present suffering of the Haitians is something he allowed to happen. Now, we are supposed to ask him to relieve that suffering. Why? To change his mind? It makes no sense!