Another question about interpreting Verhoeven's Starship Troopers

Note: I have a pretty specific question here, so please let’s not make this a GD about how he savaged Heinlein’s novel.

Ok, I have heard yet another interpretation of what Paul Verhoeven intended when he made Starship Troopers. This version goes that the whole movie is intended to be a 23rd-century equivalent of the gung-ho war movies that audiences viewed during World War Two. In other words, that the movie as we saw it in real life is missing a 30 second prolog where we watch the future audience file into the movie house and see the title and credits of Starship Troopers roll.

Is this a legitimate interpretation?

I’m sure it’s a viable interpretation. Correct or not gets us into GD, and lissener just got back, so let’s not go there. :smiley:

Where’d you read about this missing footage? The movie was, IMO, a movie about the dehumanizing effects (both for the “us” and our perception of “them”), but played rather straight-faced. Same thing really.

No missing footage, but it’s likely that that was the effect Verhoeven was going for. Unfortunately, he was too incompetent to make it work.

It’s the explanation that Verhoeven and Edward Neumeier, the screenwriter, give on the commentary track. The film itself is an “artifact of the future.”

Hey, says here there’s a videogame coming out!

Agreed. He may well have been trying to make a satirical film, but it just didn’t work for me.

I agree, and what’s interesting is that Verhoeven has proven capable of using satire in other films, such as the much superior Robocop. Snide comments about American consumerism aside, Robocop had a strong story and charismatic actors, which are two things ST lacked. I think the difference is that while his earlier film was a serious film with satirical elements, Starship Troopers was intended to be a purely satirical film, something that requires far more subtlety (and grasp of the English language) than Verhoeven was capable of providing.

Being a huge fan of just about anything that wears powered armour (go, Space Marines!), I was intensely excited when I heard that Starship Troopers was coming out. I was both disappointed and delighted with the movie, as evidenced by my purchasing the DVD (my first such purchase) before I even owned a DVD player.

I bought one of the glossy pre-production fan magazines that had a lot of behind-the-scenes photographs, interviews, and such, and there was a passage in there talking about how Neumeier and Verhoeven wanted the film to be a sort of futuristic “war/buddy” movie just like the OP describes. The reasons they give for ditching the Marauder suits were that (1) they had already blown their CGI budget on the Arachnids, (2) you can’t see the faces of the men behind the armour, so you can’t empathize with the characters, and (3) Hi, Opal!

lissener, I’m not sure what you’re referring to. Activision already put out a great tactical combat game a few years ago that featured the Arachnids as featured in the movie (plus a few nastier types like Chameleon Bugs and even Arachnid Queens!), Cap Troopers, “Special Talents”, and of course, the essential powered armour units.

Andy Chambers, after departing from Games Workshop, has gotten stuck in at another game company that has released a tabletop miniatures game that is very much like the Activision game, although it seems to be based more on the book and the short-lived computer-animated TV series.

It might have been a much better movie if it wasn’t Starship Troopers. Because whatever movie was made, that wasn’t it.

I understand the disappointment of people who loved the book, and expected the movie to be more of the same. But like any such adaptation–and really, aren’t almost all movies made from books at least somewhat different, and often not as good?–the movie in no way replaces the book. Why I roll my eyes, when people go “They ruined the book!” Um, no they didn’t; I still have a copy of the book and look, see? Unruined. If you want to relive the experience of reading the book, the best way to do that is to reread the book. To the extent that a director slavisly reproduces a book on the screen, without adding his/her own interpretation, to that extent I (personally) find adaptations a waste of time. If the director can’t make it his own art, then it’s not art. IMHO.

Hmmm. – there are a great many objections I can make to lissener’s statement, but we don’t want to go off on that tangent again – it’ll just embroil this thread in the same hijacked argument. Let’s just say that I disagree significantly with the final result, while agreeing with certain things within it.
I suspect a lot of others feel the same way.

The movie is a failure as an adaptation of the book, and it’s a failure as a satire, if for no other reason than the fact that it’s not funny. At least Showgirls is funny.

Over the years I’ve kinda come around to lissener’s take on the ST movie. If you really look at it it’s too over the top to not be tongue in cheek in some fashion. It’s obvious satire, and that’s all there is to it.

If you’re invested in Heinlein’s ST ethos then this subversive tweaking is going to really piss you off. It’s easier to say “It’s shit” than accept that he does an effective (but Per Alessan’s point slightly ham handed) job of making fun of the ST ethos and the philosophical perspectives attached to it.

I think most people in ST threads agree that it’s satirical (I realize not everyone in the general public fully grasped that) but the issue at that point is whether it’s a good satirical movie.

The satire in it is pretty obvious, really, just from the propaganda films. Verhoeven uses satire of this sort in a number of his films; there’s a great scene in the otherwise mediocre “Total Recall” where a news report talks of brave cops putting down a rebellion by out-of-control strikers, while playing a newsreel of Nazi-like goons machine-gunning unarmed men.

Wow, lissener, that’s a great approach. I happen to love the book and kinda like the movie. And Heinlein is my favorite SF author.

Yesterday I saw a movie that’s a perfect example of the kind of film Verhoeven modeled *Starhip Troopers *on: Twelve O’Clock High, starring Gregory Peck as an American General, in England for WII, who’s assigned the task of taking a flight crew with a shaky record and bringing them up to snuff. For some reason—it doesn’t really seem necessary—the story’s enclosed in a frame tale of one of the officers visiting the airfield after the war, and the bulk of the movie is in one unbroken flashback. (His memory is triggered by finding an artifact from the officers’ club in an antique store, which has inspired one of the most bizarre
pieces of movie nostalgia I know of.)

The flashback begins with an airplane returning from a bombing run. It crash lands (authentically; no models were used for the shot) and a wounded man is taken off on a stretcher. It’s a more graphic movie than most people would expect from a 1949 Gregory Peck vehicle; almost as graphic, in fact, as* Starship Troopers*: as the stretcher passes him a bystander observes that he can see the wounded man’s brains, and the scene ends with a man carrying off a severed arm wrapped in a blanket.

In the debriefing that follows, the apparent contradiction of the horrors of war and the stirring heroism of it all, which is one of Verhoeven’s targets in ST, is pretty effectively put across:

We soon learn that the higher ups—Peck and his superior—have reached the grim conclusion that the reason this particular group of flyers has been having such a run of bad luck is that their commanding officer is too soft on them. This is brought home when, confronted by Peck and his boss, the commanding officer chooses a pilot’s feelings over disciplining him for a miscalculation that cost the lives of other pilots. With this ST-worthy speech, the big boss puts Peck in charge:

Peck’s first speech to his new troops rings of the same kind of gungho propaganda-speak:

As the plot progresses, we find out that the greatest failure of the man whom Peck replaced was that his men liked him too much. Peck succeeds (of course) in winning the men over, but he does so by, essentially, inducing Stockholm syndrome in them: he designates an airplane as “The Leper Colony,” puts a man he accuses of cowardice in charge of its crew, and publicly humiliating any man who makes a mistake by assigning them to this crew. When a man makes an effort to defend his roommate’s airplane against an enemy plane, Peck orders all room assignments changed and roommates reassigned.

Needless to say, in no time Peck’s pilots are the best in the war—with The Leper Colony, of course, at the head of the bunch.

Twelve O’Clock High is a fascinating and complex examination of the of the emotional sacrifices war demands from warriors. But it’s also a stirring anthem to the heroism of war. Like Saving Private Ryan, one of its primary themes is “War is hell, but man is it worth it!” And this theme is the primary target of Verhoeven’s satire in Starship Troopers.

(For anyone who’s interested, Twelve O’Clock High is showing at noon Eastern, Friday November 11, on the Fox Movie Channel. It’s also available at Netflix.)

It’s been done…

“Twelve O’Clock High” was also spun off as a TV series in the 1960s. Casual viewers are warned that if you see something called “Twelve O’Clock High” on TV with B-17s flying around, you may not actually be watching the movie lissener is talking about.

Oh and, from a previous thread, this post by Cervaise is a lot clearer than anything I could write on the subject: