Verhoeven Reconsidered

Branching Hijack.

When I first saw Showgirls, I dutifully hated it. Then reading Jonathan Rosenbaum’s review of Hollow Man, I came across this quote:

This intrigued me, so I rented the tape, five years after I’d first seen it.

I was blown away. Suddenly it was clear to me that everything I’d bought as “bad” was an intentional choice on the part of the director, each intended to make a very specific point. Even the atrocious performance of the lead, Elizabeth Berkeley, I suddenly saw as absolutely necessary to the film’s success. Berkeley plays an entirely artificial person: a person who’s living a lie that she makes up as she goes along. (The few tantalizing clues we get of her past are pretty tawdry.) Berkeley’s inability to flesh out a believable person is crucial to Verhoeven’s projection of her character. It’s kind of a Cinderella story gone mad: her character Nomi only achieves full selfhood when she quits living a lie and gives wat her inner monster. As the film ended, I pictured her slipping off her showgirl-beautiful skin and revealing a vicious monstrosity underneath. This was further confirmed when, as she rode off into the sunset, Siouxsie and the Banshees sing “I Need a New Skin.”

I have more to say about it, and will be happy to elaborate if this thread draws any interest.

I haven’t seen it, but if Verhoeven is that clever why didn’t the film get marketed to a more sophisticated audience first and then the general populace (in order to establish the intended depth and then get people talking)?

Marketing is seldom up to the director.

lissener , from your title thread I thought you were going to talk about Starship Troopers or Robo Cop .

Two Voerhoven classics that most people miss the point of entirely, they love the explosions, I love the anti-war/anti-super patriotism/my country right or wrong and an anti-privatisation/corporate greed angles.

I have not seen Showgirls , but now I will. I think he has pulled the same types of casting tricks in other films, I will definately see it soon if only I can get over my embarressment at renting it.

I think Voerhoven has the ultimate sense of humer, so somewhat answer beajerry’s question, he gets hired because former projects of his made money in similar stylistic films, but the money guys who make these decisions really dont have anyidea (or concern) with the art involved. Voerhovne, I think, aware of this makes movies to please himslef, while packing in enough flash to sell tickets, and is thusly pulling the ultimate prank on his corporate studio-head masters.

The reason why they didn’t market the film to its (Voerhoven’s) intneded audience, is probably because they had no idea that that was the intended audience, so they marketed it to the audience that likes boobies & Esterhaus written screenplays.

Frankly, as a bitter barely working film-maker, I find it hilarious.

Just for completeness, I’m going to bring my long post from the other thread over here, so the discussion is all in one place.


Originally posted by me in the other thread
The thing about Verhoeven (his American movies, at least; I’m not including the films he made in Europe in this generalization) is that he makes what you might call “parallel universe” movies.

Starship Troopers is the most obvious example. Everybody went to that expecting either (a) the typical summer shoot-em-up or (b) a faithful adaptation of the Heinlein novel. The film is neither, which is why so many people reacted negatively to it. The key to watching that movie is not to think of it as a satire of propaganda movies, necessarily; you should think of it as a propaganda movie. That is, don’t think of it as having been made by a liberal Dutch director in Hollywood; pretend that the film has fallen back to our universe from an alternate future in which the Soviets or the Nazis won and took over the world. To aid you in making this creative leap, imagine that the movie has been dubbed into English from the original Russian or German. Through this lens, the movie makes perfect sense, with its vacuous and ridiculously pretty actors, its dopey aw-shucks dialogue, the shallow rah-rah spirit, and everything else. In other words, Verhoeven isn’t commenting on the war mentality by standing outside of it and describing its horrors like a clinician, as in All Quiet on the Western Front or Stalingrad; he’s made a movie that explores the idea from the inside out, saying to the audience, “If we really went this way, this is what it would be like.” Now, you can argue that the film is a failure for a couple of reasons: First, no major critic “got” this when the movie was first released, which suggests that the message is muddled (though I’d disagree); and second, reversing and deliberately sabotaging Heinlein’s novel strikes a lot of people as being profoundly disrespectful (with which I cannot disagree).

I describe that at length to establish a baseline for looking at Showgirls, which operates on a similar level. However, it works much more subtly, because the setting seems to be recognizable as our own world. That’s a deliberate deception; basically, the movie sucks in its audience before shitting all over them. Or, well, to be more precise, not them as people, but rather their expectations as audience members.

The structure of Showgirls is based on the age-old “star is born” model; it’s a tossed salad of elements from Stage Door, All About Eve, and, of course, A Star is Born, among others. The general plot about a newcomer to entertainment rising to stardom has been a cliche since the 1930s, but we still see it today, stretching through Funny Girl and the remake of The Jazz Singer up to Glitter and 8 Mile (which at least did something interesting with it) and Chicago. There’s even a project in development at one of the studios in which A Star is Born will be explicitly remade for the umpteenth time, transplanted into hiphop.

It’s a popular, recurring story form because it’s so potent: We in the audience look up at the flickering silver screen and project our dreams of wealth and power and stardom into the beautiful actor or actress pretending to be a doe-eyed naïf; it’s an escapist fantasy that allows us to imagine that our own half-developed talent (childhood tap classes or piano lessons, or singing in the shower for grownups, or whatever) might be the ticket to fame and fortune if we only met the right mentor (and maybe fall in love in the process) or managed to be in the right place at the right time. (Eddie Izzard has a bit in his show Dress to Kill wherein he tells of sneaking onto studio lots as a kid and creeping around hoping some producer will notice him and cast him as the lead in a hypothetical project called The Creeping Kid.)

Showgirls takes this story form, and transplants it into the most foul and sleazy environment it can find that still has some of the trappings of showbiz glitz and glamour. Thus — and this is the subversive bit — it brings our associated fantasies along with it. We cannot help but identify with the rising newcomer, even though from almost the first frame the movie is telling us what an awful person she is; we feel bad when bad things happen to her, and we feel triumph when she gets her big break, but at the same time we feel deeply icky about it. If we don’t understand what the movie is doing and how it works, we may be repulsed by this conflict and reject the movie as a failure, which is how most people responded to it. I am arguing that the film does this on purpose; just like Starship Troopers, it says to the audience, “You find this fantasy appealing? Okay, but let’s look at it another way.” Most people don’t want their fantasies exploded, and the fact that Showgirls comes off as creepy-to-the-bone caused most folks to push it away, assuming (incorrectly, I assert) that this underlying moral contradiction is due to incompetence rather than by design.

Now let’s consider that design. First look at the characters; every single one is a stock type, right off the shelf of A Star is Born and All About Eve and Gold Diggers of Broadway and so on, plugged right into their expected place; a handful are two-dimensional, and most are fewer. The only difference between those “nice” pieces of froth from the 1930s and 1940s and Showgirls is that the characters get naked and say “fuck” a lot. The correlation is obvious in the performances, too. Look specifically at Kyle MacLachlan. He knows exactly what movie he’s in. Listen to the way his character speaks: a little fast, a little clipped, in a deliberate nod to the genre they’re exploring, sort of a low-key version of the same thing Jennifer Jason Leigh did in Hudsucker Proxy. (Sadly, MacLachlan can’t take credit for an interesting, intelligent performance; whenever people bring up Showgirls and say, “What were you thinking?” he has no choice but to laugh it off as a mistake and change the subject.) And he’s not the only one, and that’s not the only giveaway: There are shots, lines, and occasionally whole scenes that hearken directly back to the fantasy genre being dissected.

The real key performance, though, in my opinion, is that of Elizabeth Berkeley. It’s not a good performance, really, but I think that’s deliberate; unlike MacLachlan, I don’t think Berkeley has a clue what movie she’s in. Based on how fiercely she grabs hold of the role (despite her obvious dramatic limitations), and how seriously she obviously takes it, I think Verhoeven cruelly and consciously misled her. He has a habit of casting beautiful but vapid people, and using them as polished mannequins to undermine audience expectations; this is true in Starship Troopers, of course, and then he did much the same thing later in Hollow Man with Elisabeth Shue and Josh Brolin, two more thespians of questionable depth. The way he uses Berkeley in Showgirls, in my view, as viciously deceptive and unfair to the actress as it seems to be, is part and parcel with the film’s overall intent.

If you decide to get Showgirls and look at it again, I’m going to suggest a point of view that I think will help, along the lines of watching Starship Troopers as a dubbed bit of ineptitude from a semi-parallel future. Instead of watching Showgirls as an ordinary movie, step outside. Imagine yourself in the cinema projection booth, with the audience below you and the movie in front. Rather than just watching the movie, watch the relationship between the movie and the audience. As the movie plays out, look at how it introduces a familiar plot element that seems to tell the audience where it’s going, and then observe as the film quickly twists or undercuts that familiarity. Imagine how the average filmgoer, who is used to passively absorbing the average movie, with its graceless but unambiguous exposition and carefully telegraphed story points designed to lead the inattentive viewer by the hand through the plot, will perceive a given moment in the film and, without even really consciously realizing it, make certain assumptions about what the story is doing and where it’s going; and then watch as the film turns these unconscious assumptions back on the audience with a nearly accusatory tone.

Yes, it’s a fairly hostile film, with a very dark sense of twisted humor not just about the characters in the story but about the comfortable audience illusions it’s attacking. For that reason, even if you “get” it, you may not find it a particularly pleasant experience, because the whole thing, in many ways, is such a cruel joke. And in order to get the joke, you have to work pretty hard and make a big imaginative leap, and keep yourself from being sucked into the movie’s tricks and deceptions, and most people, understandably, don’t want to have to work that hard at what most people would call “merely” entertainment. From that perspective, then, Showgirls cannot be called a “good movie,” because you don’t just sit back and look at it. But it is, in my view, a great work of Art.

Thus endeth the copy-and-paste.


Now, beajerry, re the question of marketing and intended audience:

In addition to what lissener said, it’s also true, as I mention above re Starship Troopers, that not a single major critic at the time Showgirls was released went on record as reading the film as anything other than a mess, an artistic and financial catastrophe of Biblical mien. They’re the ones who are supposed to be the sophisticated viewers; they’re the ones whose experience is supposed to guide them in a subtle and thoughtfully contextual analysis of a film’s intent and its success or failure at meeting its goals. And yet, they all missed the point, perhaps because they resented the mainstream financial success of the cheerfully skanky Basic Instinct and wanted payback, or maybe because they wanted to teach a lesson to a filmmaker who had taken on what appeared to be a pointlessly and hubristically sensational bit of exploitation.

Or maybe there are as many motivations as there are critics. Who knows? The important fact is, the people who should have known better didn’t get it (and I include myself in this; it was only on a second viewing that the film’s actual agenda began to dawn on me). So if the supposedly knowledgeable critics didn’t get it, what was the studio supposed to do?

Instead, they rolled the dice that the controversy would be enough to sell the movie, which is sometimes true but sometimes not; the public is nothing if not notoriously fickle.

And further than that, if the film is truly intended as a thematic hand grenade, as I suggest above, why wouldn’t the director want to roll it into the heart of the mainstream and cackle with glee to see the people scatter? Doesn’t that fit right in with what the movie is about? If you consider the film not a piece of entertainment but an act of artistic terrorism that’s intended to infect the audience’s psyche like an anthrax letter, isn’t a wide release the only way to do it?

Heck, if the film were nothing but a failure, it would have been forgotten long ago, holding no interest for anyone; consider something like Stallone’s Judge Dredd, which disappeared into the black hole of cinematic history. But Showgirls still has an allure, and a hold on our imagination; it seems to be nothing but a bad film, but it nags at us, and stays under our skin. Why would that be?

There is less here than meets the eye.

So (for example) Starship Troopers has a sprinkling of Nazi imagery in it. What does this really mean in terms of the film? That blowing up CG aliens in an action picture is equivalent to Nazi atrocities? That watching action pictures makes you a fascist? Or that Verhoeven just likes throwing controversial imagery around because he knows it will get a rise out of people?

No doubt Verhoeven thinks of himself as an artist because he puts a superficial coating of satire on his overblown and derivative Hollywood blockbusters. It is true that his films often have a subtext that the ordinary Joe might miss. But not every subtext is worth reading, and it takes more than a cynical and ironic attitude to turn crap into gold.

Well, Wumpus, what “gold” Cervaise and I, and others, have mined from Verhoeven’s work is definitely there; we’re not making it up. (Most of my own theories about his work were confirmed by subsequent viewings with director’s commentary.) So it’s possible that if you watched his films with some effort and attention, you’d see what’s there too. That you don’t doesn’t really bother me, personally, but it doesn’t make me wrong.

From this site

*****Elsewhere on that same site, this is mentioned

Starship Troopers was a great book. Maybe someday someone will make it into a movie.
Verhoeven made one of the funniest movies of all time. PV’s ST was a great comedy.

What? :confused:
It’s not a comedy?

Are you sure?

I’m not sure I really see the distinction between a filmmaker who deliberately sets out to make bad movies, and one who simply can’t help himself. What ends up on the screen is still pretty much unwatchable. If I take your arguments as true (and, persuasive as Cervaise normally is, that’s still a mighty big “if”) you’ve still done nothing to rehabilitate Verhoeven in my mind. In fact, I think you’ve lowered my opinion of him even further, if such a thing is possible. I can forgive a hack for quite a lot: at least he’s trying. But if Verhoeven is really as talented as you two make him out to be, then what a collossal waste, that he would take his talent and squander it on such contemptous, sneering dreck.

Verhoeven is a talentless hack who isn’t worth considering, much less reconsidering.

Yes, Rick, you get it. ST is indeed a comedy; it’s a very dark satire; you’re supposed to be laughing at the ridiculousness he shows.

He’s not nearly as contemptuous as Von Trier, who enjoys a great deal more critical support. His use of bad actors is nothing new; nobody squawks when John Waters does it. Ditto Hitchcock and Sirk; no one ever accused Tippi Hedren or Lana Turner or Doris Day of being great actresses; they were “types,” moved around on the screen like marionettes.

In any case, I think it’s just as valuable, as art, to hold a magnifying glass up to humanity’s dark side, as it is to celebrate the good things. Personally, I think it’s more valuable.

Verhoeven makes people angry because he rubs their noses in their own baseness; his movies do not reassure, they accuse. Although almost all of them can be said to celebrate the superior power of women. In Verhoeven’s films, the women fight just as dirty as the men, and they usually win.

Plan 9 From Outer Space and Istar still stay under our skin as well. Heck, there’s a whole subculture devoted to the appreciation of bad movies.

Marc

If the OP interpretation of Verhoeven’s works is correct, then I can grudgingly forgive his take on Starship Troopers. I still wish he hadn’t used the name and plot outline of the novel though.

A favorite novel of mine, Norman Spinrad’s The Iron Dream does something very similar. It takes the basic shell of a schlock science-fantasy novel and shoves it down your throat that you’re indentifying with an analog of Hitler and the Third Reich.

Actually, I don’t think Verhoeven really made anyone angry until the Heinlein fans watched Starship Troopers. The only people who really got upset about Showgirls were the usual Moral Majority members.

Anyway, Starship Troopers is a great movie. I never read the book, but the movie is a lot of fun. Some people seem to believe there’s some sort of deeper message in it, but there really isn’t. It’s the same thing with Matrix fans, they start pulling all this philosophical BS, but in the end, it’s really just a kung fu flick that charades as being more profound.

Starship Troopers is basically a shoot-em-up, with bad acting, a bad plot and fun special effects (except for the brain bug at the end, that was just sad). Does it have a deeper message? Sure, but it’s so broad, vague and utterly devoid of complex exploration as to make it utterly irrelevent. Was it interesting to be on the inside of the militaristic society and have the protagonists be basically pawns? I guess. But it would have been better if I actually gave a crap about any of the characters.

It’s a bad movie - but still a lot of fun at the same time.

Bottom line, Verhoeven starts with an interesting idea, but executes it poorly. Now, maybe he intentionally executed it poorly, but poor execution is poor execution.

Never seen any of Von Trier’s movies, and my knowledge of Alfred Hitchcock is pretty much limited to The Birds and a bunch of old Three Investigators books I read in middle school, so I can’t really comment on that comparison. Tippi Hedren may not have been a great actor, but she put in a good performance in The Birds. Good enough, anyway. Can’t really say the same about, say, Caspar van Dien. There’s a difference between a director who takes bad actors and finds roles appropriate for their limited talents and a director who’ll cast anyone who walks in off the street as the lead. John Waters does the former. Calling Rikki Lake an actor may be playing fast and loose with the definition of the word, but I can’t see anyone else in her role in Hairspray: she was perfect for it. (And a lot cuter when she was fat, too, but that’s neither here nor there)

I don’t have a problem with that. What I don’t agree with is A) this is what Verhoeven is doing, and B) if he is doing this, that he is doing it in an interesting or worthwhile manner.

Verhoeven makes people angry because he makes incredibly stupid movies. However, taking your argument about his intentions as granted, he moves from simple incompetence to, well, trolling. The people who went to see Starship Troopers expecting two-hours of mindless action instead get harangued about how they’re all really crypto-facists. Your argument changes the film from third-rate summer crap to a fifty million dollar violation of Godwin’s law. I don’t know about you, but I’d prefer crap.

And that still doesn’t excuse how incredibly bad his movies are. If he really wants to challenge the audience, he could start by making the movies themselves interesting. How is it challenging that he makes a movie about dull, wooden fascists? Where’s the challenge in boring an audience? Earlier, you compared him to John Waters, which I think is an excellent comparison. Look at Serial Mom, where Waters succesfully makes the audience identify with, and even root for, a sociopath. How did he do this? By making a good movie with interesting characters played by actors who, if not great, were at least competent. That was a challenge, to both the audience and the filmmaker. The only challenge to Starship Troopers was staying awake to the end.

Verhoeven did a damned good job with Soldier of Orange, which is one of the best war movies ever made.

I liked Robocop a great deal more than I thought I would. It wasn’t only Verhoeven’s direction, but the script by Miner and Neumeyer. It was a witty satire that borrowed heavily from the future corporate fantasies of Frederick Pohl and C.M. Kornbluth (right down to updating the line from Kornbluth’s “The Marching Morons” from “Would you buy that for a quarter?” to “I’d buy that for a dollar!”).

I found Starship Troopers fascinating, but for all the wrong reasons. You’re wrong if you think that fans can’t grasp the idea that these are dark satire, or that people went only expecting a mindless shoot-em-up. With the example of Robocop’s obvious satire hanging out there, or with the very clear intention of marketing this as based on a Heinlein book, how could you think that? What pissed of the Heinlein fans – me included – is the bait-and-switch of marketing this as an adaptation of a classic book and then having it turn out to be nothing of the sort – it’s characters act in a way that defy common sense, the science is laughable, and the philosophy is 180 degrees shifted from Heinlein’s. It’s as if tye current film Master and Commander ended up being about a chronically and hopelessly inept sea captain who bore ionly a token resemblance to the guy in all those books.

The satire worked in Robocop, because the dark, ironic vision pretty much matched the source material. I liked Neumeyer’s use of “Internet Sites” with their click-buttons as a cute way of introducing snippets of future culture even more than the vapid New show (“Give us ten minutes, we’ll give you the world!”) from Robocop. But the cynical vision, the utter contempt for the government, and the flagrantlt idiotic science (and battle tactics!) just don’t fit Heinlein at all. Hell, they wouldn’t even fit The Forever War.

And a damn good insight into the Dutch resistance in WWII, I might add. Thanks for stealing my thunder, by the way. :slight_smile:

I’m of two minds about Verhoeven. He’s made some absolute gems, like the aforementioned Soldaat van Oranje and indeed, Starship Troopers. The 1973 “groundbreaking” film Turks Fruit (“Turkish Delight” - it had a lot of nekkidness and simulated sex in it) wasn’t bad either, although it seems dated now. It did put both Rutger Hauer and Monique van de Ven on the map, though. Total Recall, RoboCop and The Fourth Man I’d also count as decent to good. Basic Instinct is cliché’d, but not bad.

But man. Showgirls is a piece. of. shit. No need to intellectualise it: it stinks. Spetters, an early 80’s Dutch movie about teenagers gone wild, is an utter piece of shit as well.

Add to that the man is a complete and total fake (I guess Hollywood becomes him), who -after a good decade in the US- now speaks Dutch with an American accent, and English with a Dutch accent (can’t you at least get one language straight, you pretentious wanker?), and I’ll conclude by saying my opinion of Verhoeven is that he is a talented wanker, I guess. :slight_smile:

I don’t muck like Spetters either.

I think Katje Tippel, a film you didn’t mention Cold, is pretty important in understanding Verhoeven’s later films. It’s the first of his films to state some of the themes that become central to his later work; in many ways, it’s Showgirls in 19th century Amsterdam.

And Cal, the only way, apparently, to give ST a decent chance is to completely divorce it from Heinlein in your mind. It was no bait and switch; trust me, it may be a small world where you live, but Heinlein traditionalists are not a huge lobby in Hollywood. Saying in a pitch meeting “It’ll bring in all the Heinlein fans!” is probably a quicker way to get your film shitcanned than secure a big budget.

He saw a germ of an idea in ST, and expanded that idea into the central theme. People have been doing that with Shakespeare for centuries.

And Miller, you take my comparison to Waters too far. Waters’ films are peopled almost entirely with outsiders and social rejects, but ultimately they’re very gentle films: Waters loves the geeks.

Verhoeven is much more cynical and manipulative: he uses actors who come off as cardboard cutouts, for example, because that emphasizes his themes: of artificiality, Hollywood fakery, vapid consumerism, etc. Who’d want to see a critique of the modern TV culture starring Meryl Streep doing a Portuguese accent and dying of scabies? Well, I would, come to think of it, but that’s beside the point.

Waters gets you to laugh WITH him and his lovable bunch of outcasts; Verhoeven gets you to laugh AT his soulless monstrosities, until, too late, you realize he’s tricked you into laughing at yourself.