Another reason why this country is so fucked!!

So this week my elected state “representatives”:rolleyes: held a hearing about limiting drivers licenses to only citizens and legal immigrants. Sounds damn good to me!
The fucked up part comes in here: during the hearings they allowed an ** ILLEGAL IMMIGRANT TO TESTIFY!!**

“I’m really scared right now, if I get caught without a license,” said Angel Porras, 27, of Whitewater, who said he was in the country illegally. “We’re not asking for much - just a little bit.”.

Not asking for much? He shouldn’t have any right to ANYTHING! He’s not here legally!
And why is this guy afraid of driving without a license, but seems to have no fear about confessing at a public forum that he shouldn’t even be here in the first place?

The Wisconsin Assembly’s Criminal Justice and Homeland Security Committee is debating a bill aimed at fighting terrorism & illegal immigration and they allow an illegal to testify at the hearing? Why? Why are they proposing new laws when existing ones aren’t enforced, even when a brazen violator is in their very presence? Why weren’t the Wisconsin Capitol Police notified? They would have at least reported the situation to the I.N.S. or other proper authorities!

I called my “represenative” Leah Vukmir and all I got from her aide was “um, uh, huh, um, yeah, I read that too, um…uh,…um…”
Illegal immigrants are a slap in the face to every immigrant who came here lawfully!
This is so fucked up.

Feh, move to a less fucked country then guy.

So, Mexico doesn’t issue drivers licences?

I never got this. All my friends who come from overseas have drivers licences from their own countries. Fuck! they can even rent cars.

I can only assume;

Mexico has no drivers licences

Mexico has no credit cards

So am I a racist? I must be.

Can I assume that your friends came here legally?
What gets me is, they were having a hearing about controling illegals, and here they have one in their mitts, and nothing is said or done. Why, then, are they having a hearing in the first place? Why pass new laws when the ones we have are ignored?
Our leaders are a bunch of numb nuts if you ask me!

I’m not about to pit you for this, but do you know how hard it’s gotten for some people to “come here legally”? Not even being married to an American while in America is good enough anymore, for starters. Fiancé visas are hell on earth as well.

So while I see the silliness of allowing an illegal immigrant to testify in a case like this, please understand that it is not easy to immigrate to America legally. (I’ve seen the papers for working visas too–it’s even worse as far as legal rigmarole goes.)

Maybe they should, I don’t know, get the message? I find it hard to believe that the idea of America being the land of opportunity subsists. They ignored the signs, swam the river, broke the rules, and now they want our help too? Even so, if we increase the handouts to these people, aren’t even more of them going to show up? Why perpetuate the myth? I understand the point of making legal immigration easier, but is it not like that for a reason?

Yeah! Them fuckin [insert racial epithet here] oughtta be deported! Invade our country, thinking they can drive and shit! Like they have a right! :rolleyes:

:sarcasm alert…:


That’s all I got for you. Just :rolleyes: .

…well duh…

You know what, I’m not even talking about Mexican immigrants right now, who choose to swim the river.

I am talking about people who come here on legal pretenses and then get screwed over. That’s all.

But maybe since I’m an American who married a foreigner and now we’re having to go the attorney route because of bullshit in trying to file…well, I might be a little biased. I still think the attitudes to immigration in this country are stupid.

Come to this country, take jobs from the locals, don’t learn the language. Hey! You’re talking about me!

I have an alternate reason why this country is getting to be so fucked. There was once a time when bigoted small-minded rednecks, who like to sit around all day talking about what is wrong or what is right with the world but who have little understanding of any complex issue such as the ones they typically open their big fat mouths about, would not state their beliefs for risk of being laughed at. (You know the people I’m referring to, the ones who have necks wider around than their heads which usually come to a point.) These people often have unimportant jobs and are very miserable and angry about a world they have little control over.

It is my theory, that these people, who I am sure care little about New Yorkers or what happened to them on 9/11, have used this tragic event to come out of the woodwork and give voice to their ignorant views. Fret not my friends, it’s our job to shut them up again and make them afraid to even speak without someone pointing out their incredible stupidity.

First of all, all these illegal immigrants are here because American farmers in California and other states utilize them to pick their crops for below minimum wage. Just imagine having to feed your enormous girth paying (at the very least) twice as much for produce. This is almost as funny as imagining you getting your fat ass out of your chair and picking that produce in the middle of the central valley in one-hundred degree weather. I’m laughing my ass off thinking about it.

Before you say that they take jobs from American teenagers, I want you to tell me with a straight face that an American teenager is going to sit out in the fields all day for less then minimum wage picking tomatos. The illegals also buy a lot of our crap that we sale and are prolific consumers. Let’s face it, the illegals give more to our country then the pittance they get in exchange. But that is something you never considered because you are incapable of seeing the other side isn’t it? Then again, your understanding of any issue is informed by a thirty second diatribe by some lying loudmouth on Fox News.

I have news for you: You people are the aberration of our civilization. As Bill Clinton said “diversity is our strength” and I believe this. America often needs an infusion of people who believe in the dream when the rest of us have become jaded. We are all once immigrants and we have all been persecuted. We all once loved this land we came to. Right now, Hispanics make up a larger portion of the armed forces than what their population percentage would let on. They are highly patriotic and love this country as well. I would dare say that they are more American than you in many ways.

Beside that, throw them a bone and they might point out the terrorist who resemble them and could come through our border with ease. Face it, they are here and they drive. American won’t shut them out so why don’t we make them part of the war against the bad guys? Makes sense to me. :dubious:

Hell, there’s companies that advertise on the radio in Mexican cities, offering transportation into the U.S. for those willing to work the fields. I dunno much about agriculture in Wisconsin, but if it’s anything like Michigan, it depends for its existence on Mexican migrant workers. It’s a shitty existence for them, but I suppose it must be worth it to be able to send some money to their families back home. Regardless, without them, the economy of Michigan would be even more screwed than it is now. This is true of much, probably most, of the country. We depend on those illegals. It’s not wise to bite the hand that’s feeding us.

It seems you are arguing for a reform of our immigration laws. I’m all for that debate. I’m the son of a Salvadoran immigrant and I’m married to a Dominican immigrant. Me like immigrants.

But the OP is talking about illegal immigrants. Both my father and my now-wife entered this country legally. And both of them had nothing but contempt for those Hispanics that don’t.

You raise plenty of valid points that we ought to consider – we benefit greatly from workers willing to actually WORK, a condition that seems to escape many “real” Americans. But we should reform the law to reflect that reality, not turn a blind eye to lawbreakers.


According to this page, if you’re in the country legally, and are the spouse of a US citizen, you are eligible to apply for permanant residency. If the spouse is out of the country, the frist step is to secure an immigrant visa - which are availabe in unrestricted numbers for spouses of US citizens.

Contrary to what you seem to claim, being married to a US citizen while in the United States is sufficient to get lawful permanant residency.

I think I could love you. :wink:

To the OP, the legislature in your state is apparently considering enacting a law that would change the rights of identifiable groups in your states. Why not permit a member of one of those groups to testify about the effect such a change in the law might have? That seems both rational and fair. Despite the personal animus towards undocumented aliens that many people seem to bear, a rational adult ought to recognize that a substantive change in the law that affects said aliens will necessarily have an impact on society. The legislature is not only entitled to examine what that impact will be, but should be run out of town on a rail if it fails to do so.

My OP was more of a pitting of the Pols who are wasting their time & our money debating new laws when existing ones aren’t enforced. This isn’t the only issue they do that on!

But I can’t believe anyone would defend illegal immigration. Especially someone who came here lawfully. Why should someone who spit on our laws get the same benefits as you?

Because he’s not supposed to even be here in the first place! When he stated that he was an illegal why didn’t someone say "wait a minute…! "

Why not have an active drug dealer testify at a hearing over bill ment to curb drug dealing at schools?

I still don’t understand why this guy is so worried about driving without a license when he seems to have no fear about being here illegally in the first place.

Well, i’m in the US legally on an F1 visa, which makes me a non-resident alien. I’m married to a US citizen, and am just about to set the wheels in motion to get my US residency. This will take quite a while, given the current backlog of applications and the allocation of workers at the DHS, but unless i go and commit a crime or something it should be pretty much a done deal.

I’m not angry about illegal immigration, for a couple of reasons. First of all, for me the whole thing is not some zero-sum game. I don’t get all worked up because some poor bastard from Mexico is working a shitty job in the US without getting the proper visas like i did. The fact is, that Mexican will never have the same opportunities that i do as a legal immigrant. Also, i’m not that worried about illegal immigration, because in many cases i wouldn’t be able to put food on the table without illegal immigrants. I don’t mean that i wouldn’t be able to earn a living. I’m literally talking about putting food on the table.

If the US developed a Star Trek-style transporter beam that automatically deported every illegal alien in the country today, within a week or so we’d start to notice drastic shortages of many of the foods we take for granted. Tomatos, oranges, cauliflower, lettuce, strawberries would lie in the fields or sit on the tree, they wouldn’t get packed and shipped. Many slaughterhouses and meat processing plants would grind to a halt for lack of reliable, underpaid people willing to perform dangerous work for low pay and no health benefits. There are plenty of middle and upper class families whose lawns wouldn’t get mowed and whose houses wouldn’t get trimmed. In many parts of America, things wouldn’t get built if the supply of immigrant day labor dried up.

To tell you the truth, i think that in the long run the country might benefit from booting out all the illegal immigrants, because within a very short space of time a whole shitload of Americans would come to realise just what an important part of the economy these people are. We might also see some support for more reasonable immigration policies, and for stricter enforcement of legislation to protect the rights and the health of workers in these industries, so that an immigrant who slices himself open on a carving knife, or who is burned by caustic chemicals while cleaning a slaughterhouse (see Eric Schlosser’s Fast Food Nation for more examples) could actually receive adequate health care and reasonable worker’s comp rather than being thrown on the scrap heap and replaced by another illegal.

What really chaps my ass about these anti-immigrant rants is that i hardly ever hear the same people calling for the law to be enforced on the AMERICAN companies who hire these illegal immigrants. In many, many cases, when the immigration folks do raids and crack-downs on illegal immigrants, the only consequences are for the immigrants themselves. Often, the companies get off with nothing more than a warning, and they then go out again the next day and just find a whole load of new illegals to replace the ones that just got deported. Sometimes the companies get nominal fines, but these are usually not high enough to discourage the companies from hiring more illegals next time around.

Remember, especially those of you who like to preach free market doctrine, the illegals only come here because they know there is a market for their labor. As someone has already pointed out, American companies actively recruit illegal immigrants, even though hiring illegals is itself against the law. Maybe, rather than whining about the poor schmucks who work their asses off every day to make a bare living, you should direct your rant against the people who actually have the on-the-ground power to reduce the flow of illegals—the people who hire them.

Nocturne: i was under the impression that, for the spouse of an American citizen, the procedure for becoming a resident was a little bit long and bureaucratic, but that it usually doesn’t pose too many problems. What problems have you run into? I’m curioous to know because i’m about to start the paperwork required to become a resident.

This country is economically dependent on undocumented workers. They are a significant part of the labor force and they do pay some taxes. If we really wanted to do something about it we would crack down on all the Americans who employ them but we don’t because we need them. I can also think of at least a thousand things I’m more concerned about than people coming here to do shit jobs for shit wages in order to feed their children. That’s no skin off my dick and I’m not going to pick those grapes. I’m also not lying awake at night enraged about “illegal aliens” driving cars. Who gives a fuck?

If I may voice my opinion, I advocate three things with respect to this issue: (1) eliminate the entire abstraction of arbitrary lines on maps called “borders”; (2) empower landowners to decide who may and may not cross their property; and (3) eliminate all wealth redistributions schemes managed by government.