Another SG1 thread

Cafe Society
1

So here I am reading GD forum, and someone has a thread going about the navy being redundant.

Among other things transfer the carriers over to the airforce, with colonels presumably in command, this just screamed prometheus(x303).

Now for some reason stargate seems to have a special relationship with the airforce ,either official or unofficial with some producer/writer/storyboarder just deciding that its the 21 century, and colonels will lead away teams and operate deep black space ships that appear to have several months endurance and be commanded by colonels or at least one of them.

While I have heard several flag officers have said that they like the show , even to the point of appearing on the show in a cameo appearance , I am frankly surprised that nothing has been said by the navy.

That the airforce , even the fictional one could get funding for a ship like that without a massive turf war by the navy. Sure on the C-5 and 17’s the bridge is called the flight deck, but this thing looks to be the size of a frigate , in relation to the asgard ships, and yet its commanded by a colonel.

Did anyone ever give a rational explanation as to why this might be so.

Declan

2

Not that I know of, aside from a response by my friend (an officer in the Air Force) that it’s an Air Force ship because space is firmly in the Air Force’s playground. That said, the existance of a US Navy USS Enterprise would have been a nice explanation for hwy they couldn’t name the Prometheus the Enterprise.

Oh, and they’re the X304s now, no more X303s are in service, after the sad and abrupt decomissioning of the only example. :frowning:

That said, I think many of the random Air Force personel you see wandering around on Stargate SG1 are actually played by random Air Force personel wandering around. The Air Force likes to supply extras for SG1.

I really WOULD like to see some Navy battlecruisers on StarGate.

Hell, I just want them to send a battalion-sized force through the gate just ONCE, seeing as hour FOUR Air Force guys (one of them a scientist, another actually a civilian archeologist/linguist) can cause such widespread mayhem on their own lonesome (and it’s implied that the other 4-man teams are usually reasonably successful in their own attempts). Can a Humvee fit through the gate? It’d be fun to have the gate open, and a Humvee flying out (with the required Dukes of Hazard “WAHOOOOOOOO!”)

That said, for a decade or so, until a couple years ago, the Navy had JAG, and the Air Force apparantly didn’t have a problem with that show making it seem like only the Navy and Marine lawyers get to have action-packed adventures all over the world. The geek in me wants to see Harmon Rabb (or even better, Bud Roberts, if he’s still in the Navy) ending up as a JAG officer on SG: Atlantis. :smiley:

One rule though, if Harm ends up on SGA, he gets to fly an F-302 once a season. I think it’s in DJE’s contract

On an unrelated note, does anyone else think the Daedelus (and to a lesser degree, the Prometheus) looks vaguely like a BattleStar? Long main hull, hangers in pods on the sides. Granted, this isn’t exactly a terribly hard to think up arrangement, and could entirely happen for unrelated reasons, but I’ve seen LOTS of ships in sci-fi that resembled the Galactica to varying degrees.

3

[QUOTE=Raguleader]
…FOUR Air Force guys (one of them a scientist, another actually a civilian archeologist/linguist) can cause such widespread mayhem on their own lonesome (and it’s implied that the other 4-man teams are usually reasonably successful in their own attempts)…
[/QUOTE]

Actually SG1 has usually been made of of 2 military officers, O’Neil & Carter (& later Mitchell) and 2 civilians, Jackson & Teal’c*. In season 8 it was one officer (Carter) and 2 civilians (Jackson & Teal’c). Now it’s 2 officers and 3 civilians (Vala). It seems kinda odd that the USAF is so willing to allow “aliens” to serve in it’s SF units. An

4

[QUOTE=alphaboi867]
Actually SG1 has usually been made of of 2 military officers, O’Neil & Carter (& later Mitchell) and 2 civilians, Jackson & Teal’c*. In season 8 it was one officer (Carter) and 2 civilians (Jackson & Teal’c). Now it’s 2 officers and 3 civilians (Vala). It seems kinda odd that the USAF is so willing to allow “aliens” to serve in it’s SF units. An
[/QUOTE]

Sounds like you got cut off here. Anyhow, I’m not sure if Teal’C counts as a civilian. He was a fairly high ranking military officer on Chulak (First Prime of Apophis) until he defected to Earth. Anyhow, Carter is a weird one, she’s both a highly skilled scientist (with the kind of knowledge that should have taken years of highly specialized academic training), as well as fairly experienced combat pilot, AND she’s not bad at hand-to-hand or infantry style gunfighting. She’s basically what many of us call “The Perfect Woman” :smiley:

5

[QUOTE=Raguleader]
Can a Humvee fit through the gate? It’d be fun to have the gate open, and a Humvee flying out (with the required Dukes of Hazard “WAHOOOOOOOO!”)

[/QUOTE]

I think the real problem would be fitting ANY large vehicle, whether it be a Hummer or a helicopter, through the corridors of Cheyenne Mountain and into the Gate Room. I guess you could bring one in disassembled and reassemble it in the gate room, but that would be a stone cold bitch to do on a regular basis.

6

[QUOTE=Raguleader]
On an unrelated note, does anyone else think the Daedelus (and to a lesser degree, the Prometheus) looks vaguely like a BattleStar? Long main hull, hangers in pods on the sides. Granted, this isn’t exactly a terribly hard to think up arrangement, and could entirely happen for unrelated reasons, but I’ve seen LOTS of ships in sci-fi that resembled the Galactica to varying degrees.
[/QUOTE]
Yesterday, I watched a rerun of “Prometheus Unbound,” and thought just that: “Hey, with the pods on the sides, that ship looks like a Battlestar!”

7

[QUOTE=RikWriter]
I think the real problem would be fitting ANY large vehicle, whether it be a Hummer or a helicopter, through the corridors of Cheyenne Mountain and into the Gate Room. I guess you could bring one in disassembled and reassemble it in the gate room, but that would be a stone cold bitch to do on a regular basis.
[/QUOTE]

They can lower it in like they did the gate. If I’m not mistaken there is some sort of silo that can be used to lower stuff into the gateroom. So they could just use a crane to lower large vehicles down.

8

[QUOTE=Xan]
They can lower it in like they did the gate. If I’m not mistaken there is some sort of silo that can be used to lower stuff into the gateroom. So they could just use a crane to lower large vehicles down.
[/QUOTE]

Also, they could just transport all the bulky stuff to another planet via a hyper-capable space ship (Daedalus or Odyssey come to mind, but something along the lines of an Alkesh might work) and then muster the force at the Stargate. After that, it’s a case of coordinating an attack with communication gaps lightyears apart (you have the force at the muster site, possibly a BC-304 or two that will need to get to the target to provide support, and maybe even the SGC on Earth. I’m not sure how far FTL communications have gone in the StarGate universe without having to open the gate to shout “WHAZZZUP?!”)

9

[QUOTE=Raguleader]
Also, they could just transport all the bulky stuff to another planet via a hyper-capable space ship (Daedalus or Odyssey come to mind, but something along the lines of an Alkesh might work) and then muster the force at the Stargate. After that, it’s a case of coordinating an attack with communication gaps lightyears apart (you have the force at the muster site, possibly a BC-304 or two that will need to get to the target to provide support, and maybe even the SGC on Earth. I’m not sure how far FTL communications have gone in the StarGate universe without having to open the gate to shout “WHAZZZUP?!”)
[/QUOTE]

That would work. I think they have Asqard beaming technology that would make your scenario even easier.

10

[QUOTE=Xan]
They can lower it in like they did the gate. If I’m not mistaken there is some sort of silo that can be used to lower stuff into the gateroom. So they could just use a crane to lower large vehicles down.
[/QUOTE]

But you don’t just need the vehicle on the far side of the gate, you need enough fuel to keep it/them supplied, repair parts, repair vehicles, etc…
Read on how much maintenance is needed to keep military vehicles running in combat in harsh environments…it would be a strain on logistics to do it through that single gate, as difficult as it would be to get supplies in bulk into the gate room. Not impossible, and certainly doable, but enough of a pain in the ass that I can understand sticking to foot patrols and ROVs.

11

[QUOTE=Raguleader]
Can a Humvee fit through the gate? It’d be fun to have the gate open, and a Humvee flying out (with the required Dukes of Hazard “WAHOOOOOOOO!”).
[/QUOTE]

This is the best idea I’ve heard in a while. Since SG-1 has been cancelled, maybe the writers could work it into a script. Who has that email address?

12

[QUOTE=RikWriter]
But you don’t just need the vehicle on the far side of the gate, you need enough fuel to keep it/them supplied, repair parts, repair vehicles, etc…
Read on how much maintenance is needed to keep military vehicles running in combat in harsh environments…it would be a strain on logistics to do it through that single gate, as difficult as it would be to get supplies in bulk into the gate room. Not impossible, and certainly doable, but enough of a pain in the ass that I can understand sticking to foot patrols and ROVs.
[/QUOTE]

Well, this is where using a seperate staging site would be handy. Spend a few weeks or months piling up men and equipment and supplies on two or three worlds, then send them through on a schedule (preferably with some means of coordinating or changing the plan if need be)

13

[QUOTE=Raguleader]
Well, this is where using a seperate staging site would be handy. Spend a few weeks or months piling up men and equipment and supplies on two or three worlds, then send them through on a schedule (preferably with some means of coordinating or changing the plan if need be)
[/QUOTE]
Did they have Humvees at the Alpha site? I assume they needed to move gear around somehow.

14

[QUOTE=Revenant Threshold]
Did they have Humvees at the Alpha site? I assume they needed to move gear around somehow.
[/QUOTE]

When in doubt, everything is moved around or powered by Plot. It’s a little known fact that Naquadah is actually an isotope of Plotonium.

15

[QUOTE=Declan]

That the airforce , even the fictional one could get funding for a ship like that without a massive turf war by the navy. Sure on the C-5 and 17’s the bridge is called the flight deck, but this thing looks to be the size of a frigate , in relation to the asgard ships, and yet its commanded by a colonel.

Declan
[/QUOTE]

I think there’s some confusion on the part of USAF vs. USN ranks, and what they do.

USAF Colonel == USN Captain. USN Captains command aircraft carriers and other major capitol ships, or a flotilla of destroyers. Both wear eagles as their insignia.

USAF Lt. Colonel = USN Commander. USN Commanders command destroyers and cruisers(?), and are XOs on large capitol ships. Both wear silver oak leaves.

USAF Major = USN Lt. Commander. USN Lt. Commanders can command frigates and are XOs on some larger ships. Both wear bronze oak leaves.

Therefore, it’s not surprising that a USAF Colonel would be commanding a ship as important as the Prometheus or Daedalus, etc…

16

[QUOTE=bump]
I think there’s some confusion on the part of USAF vs. USN ranks, and what they do.

USAF Colonel == USN Captain. USN Captains command aircraft carriers and other major capitol ships, or a flotilla of destroyers. Both wear eagles as their insignia.

USAF Lt. Colonel = USN Commander. USN Commanders command destroyers and cruisers(?), and are XOs on large capitol ships. Both wear silver oak leaves.

USAF Major = USN Lt. Commander. USN Lt. Commanders can command frigates and are XOs on some larger ships. Both wear bronze oak leaves.

Therefore, it’s not surprising that a USAF Colonel would be commanding a ship as important as the Prometheus or Daedalus, etc…
[/QUOTE]

Yes I would agree on everything with the exception of the USAF col, commanding the ship.

Only in the essecence that Captain is also a legal term thats not rank specific. It could be a airman first class operating a pod, or a major flying a dropship. If its a ship , it just makes sense to have a captain commanding, even if they (capt and col) are both 06(?) rank.

I believe back in the sixties , the army and the airforce signed a peace agreement, where the army operated aircraft would be limited to rotary craft, while the zoomies operated the fixed wing. So no more mohawk platoons.

With that precedent i cant see how the navy would sit idly by , while the airforce operates deep space frigates and BC’s.

Declan

17

[QUOTE=Declan]
Yes I would agree on everything with the exception of the USAF col, commanding the ship.

Only in the essecence that Captain is also a legal term thats not rank specific. It could be a airman first class operating a pod, or a major flying a dropship. If its a ship , it just makes sense to have a captain commanding, even if they (capt and col) are both 06(?) rank.

I believe back in the sixties , the army and the airforce signed a peace agreement, where the army operated aircraft would be limited to rotary craft, while the zoomies operated the fixed wing. So no more mohawk platoons.

With that precedent i cant see how the navy would sit idly by , while the airforce operates deep space frigates and BC’s.

Declan
[/QUOTE]

Actually, fun fact, the Army still has a few fixed wing planes (I think mostly they’re just light transports and such though) and the Air Force has quite a few rotary aircraft, including a VERY highly sophisticated special forcers variant of the MH-53.

The Army DID make a grab for the A-10s in the 90’s, but apparantly nothing came of that. The Air Force has a Colonel commanding the ships because they’re Air Force ships (thus, there would be no tradition for the head guy being a Captain, that being one nautical tradition that military aviation never aquired, unlike civilian aviation).

And for all we know, maybe the Navy IS making a fight over the issue, but it would have to be done discretely, behind closed doors in smoke-filled rooms. It’s also entirely possible that many of the BC’s crewmembers and F-302 pilots are Navy personel (We’ve seen Marines operating from the Air Force Cheyenne Mountain complex).

If we run with this totally fan-wank assumption, then we haven’t seen any Navy Captains running this ships in this case because none of these crewmembers have gained enough experience and seniority to grab that chair, while the Air Force colonels currently get it via politics because, well, the ships ARE run by the Air Force (and the technology for them gained primarily via Air Force efforts), and well, SOMEONE has to command the things. I can easily see some Navy Admirals pointing at the incident that led to the loss of Prometheus as an example of why they need Navy commanders for the ships (whether or not Colonel Pendergast did anything wrong, or if Captain Whomever would have had better luck).

What bugs the heck outa ME is that the BC-304s and teh F-302s are apparantly under the command of StarGate Command. This bugs me primarily because, in all fairness, they should be operated by Space Command (an actual existing command in the Air Force). It’s entirely possible that the SGC is part of Space Command, but we’ve seen no evidence of this, and it would mean you have an operation headed by a 2 star general, who then answers to ANOTHER 2 star general (and again, we’ve only seen Generals Hammond, O’Neil, and Landry answer to the President.)