having recently been inspired by the “Enterprise vs Star Destroyer” thread, a question came to mind, “who would win in a fight? the borg collective or the galactic empire?” and im talking about sheer firepower (or laserpower, whatever) and neglect the whole Force crap cuz i know some of you would say “oh but darth vader or the emperor can choke the borg to death… blah blah”. well, even if the emperor and darth went about choking the collective, there are probably billions, if not trillions, of drones so eventually they would get tired of choking the drones.
easy, the borg.
all those re-aligning shields and one central brain to direct them all, they would romp some storm trooper butt. If the Storm Troopers had better fitting uniforms, i’m sure they’d make a better run for it, but could you imaging the ISD being assimilated? wow.
The Borg.
Why do the storm troopers wear that white armour? To make better targets for teddy bears throwing rocks?
no force? what the hell is that about? if youre going to argue about the collective might of the empire then they have to be able to use the force. you cant just say the empire cant use the force, thats like saying “ok who would win USA or France, but none of this nuclear weapons crap.” of course the empire wont stand a chance.
kasuo is not saying that the force cannot be used. of course it can be used – he is just saying that it would not be effective.
now if kasuo is talking about the post episode 6 empire, then no one would possess the force (being that the aforementioned are dead), which would give the borg an even greater advantage. but more importantly, the post episode 6 empire is in ruins with very little organization. their force and size would be equivalent to the rebellion.
however, pre episode 6 would be a different story.
the empire, militaristically speaking, is a superior war machine. however, engaging in wars is not the empire’s sole function. and that is where they differ from the borg collective. the borg’s sole purpose for existance and survival is to assimilate all other species.
the borg exist as a collective consciousness in which the concept of individuality has no meaning. freedom and self-determination are irrelevant. so with these goals set aside, and the borg solely focusing on assimilating the empire, one way or another, the empire is going down.
coupled with the fact the borg’s population is close to a trillion (and keep in mind that there aren’t any civilians in that population – the whole trillion constitutes their military force), the empire doesn’t stand a chance.
(um, i forgot to mention darth vader and emporer palpatine before that line. sue me.)
Well, in the pre-Episode 6 Empire, the Emperor had force contact with each soldier in the Imperial armed forces, enhancing their abilities and such. Also, all soldiers are trained and drilled endlessly for blind devotion to the Emperor. Therefore, loyalty and central control are almost equal in both the Empire and the Borg Collective, at least enough so that it wouldn’t be much of a factor in determining an outcome.
IMHO, we would still kick some serious french ass, with or with out nukes. And that’s using nothing but the Coast Guard. hehe ( apologies to any Gallic readers out there, but it’s true. Well, maybe not the “just the Coast Guard” part.)
Okay, just the Coast Guard, but all the sailors have to continually jump on one foot during the battles.
hey, its the French, we just need to send the news crews over there on Coast Guard ships and that would be enough. They don’t seem to be very good at fighting their own battles, so the news crews can just get shots of them all running away.
soccer blue this boyo! 
ok enough about the french, maybe i started something i shouldnt have…but anyways i have another point to make: the empire’s arsenal of weaponry does not solely revolve around lasers. they also have rockets, torpedoes, bombs, and other explosive weapons. Now say for example a stormtrooper throws a grenade at a borg and kills it. the force of the blast depends on where you are standing in relation to the grenade when it exploded. if youre standing right next to the grenade youre going to be blown to pieces, if you were a few feet away you might lose a limb. also, explosions cause shrapnel to fly everywhere in random directions at random speeds. so my argument is that explosive weapons would work agianst the borg continuously because theres an infinite number of possible forces that an explosive weapon can cause, for a the borg to become completely immune to the explosion they would have to adapt to every possible scenario. arguments?
Wouldn’t their shields protect them from mere explosions .
The shields seem to be only vulnerable to modulating phasers which can find the right frequency to cut through the shield .
you have to consider the following.
most of the battles are going to be fought in space. that is, from capital ship to capital ship, fighter to fighter, bomber to bomber… or most likely, a combination of everything. but the point is, it is going to be in space.
sure, your grenade scenario holds true, but what good is it going to be if you cannot get the borg units on land, or rather, any place that has gravity so the grenade can actually be thrown?
you also mention that the empire’s arsenal of weaponry includes rockets, bombs, and torpedoes (which i’m still trying to figure out what good torpedoes would do in space, but ok). all of those projectiles require oxygen to work. once again, since most of the battles are going to be fought in space, those weapons would not do much good. because, you know… space… no oxygen… not gonna work…
but like i said earlier, the deciding factor here is numbers. the borg collective would win based on the sheer number of them.
if you remember correcly the first death star was destroyed when luke fired proton torpedoes into it. also, when the empire was looking for the millenum falcon in the asteroid field tie bombers dropped proton bombs on the larger ones to try and flush them out. this proves that such weapons do work in space. also, if the borg were to deafeat the empire they would have to land troops. the empire also has planetary defense systems complete with shields. im still not convinced that the borg would defeat the empire.
fyi: you mentioned that the empire has lost the force with the death of vadar and emperor palpatine… not so my friend, the emperor’s clones and vadar’s ghost are still around. post episode 6 new technologies and soldiers came about that require the dark side of the force to function or use it to enhance abilities (ie. darktroopers, shadow droids, etc.)
tough battle…
the borg would probably have the advantage in hand to hand, or even troop on troop armed with whatever sidearms or portable weaponry. Otherwise, the Empire has so much more ballistics then anything we’ve seen in the Borg. en masse, the borg collective on the Empire would not win i think. The empire has too many defenses. The borg would probably strike in guerilla attacks being as how they have one central brain. Darth’s controlling the Empire is a bit messy compared to the collectives control. That would make a great long battle. (Provided neither side allied with the French )
If the Empire used robot troops, could the Borg assimilate them? Would they have any use for robots since they seem to use humanoid life forms for drones? Perhaps they could learn to use them.
The Empire has the advantage of being evil. They wouldn’t have to worry about protecting a planet or system from the Borg like the good guys would. They would probably be willing to destroy a system rather than let the Borg assimilate it’s resources. Should they develop a biological weapon, they would not hesitate to use it as the Trek people have on at least three ocassions.
Any rebel factions would probably align themselves with the Emipre for the duration.
My money would be on the Empire.
The Borg. No contest. For the simple reason that Imperial Storm Troopers are the worst shots in the galaxy. Seriously, they couldn’t hit the broad side of a bantha. The Borg wouldn’t even have to worry about modulating their shields, 'cause the only time they’d get hit is by accident.
I really don’t know who would win the battle, but I do believe that rockets will work in space, with or without oxygen. We did land on the moon, didn’t we? And what about all those ICBM’s, aren’t they rockets that travel in space?
Now, about those torpedo thingies that don’t work in space. Didn’t they have Flowton(sp) Torpedoes on Star Trec?
There seems to be some confusion as to what a torpedo is. This is the definition of a torpedo, compliments of our friends, Merriam and Webster.
Main Entry: tor·pe·do
Pronunciation: tor-'pE-(")dO
Function: noun
Inflected Form(s): plural -does
Etymology: Latin, literally, stiffness, numbness, from torpEre to be sluggish or numb – more at TORPID Date: circa 1520
1 : ELECTRIC RAY
2 : a weapon for destroying ships by rupturing their hulls below the waterline: as a : a submarine mine b : a thin cylindrical self-propelled underwater projectile
3 : a small firework that explodes when thrown against a hard object
4 : a professional gunman or assassin
5 : SUBMARINE
Note the second definition. By this, the term torpedo has incorrectly been used in both the Star Trek and Star Wars Universes. I can’t help it if George and Gene didn’t know what they were talking about, I’m just going by the book here. As for definition 1, it’s not referring to a laser, but rather, the electric fish.
Now to address extra crispy’s points.
Yes, Emporer Palpatine did return in a clone body, as depicted in the comic book series, Dark Empire. He returned 6 years later after his death in Episode 6. However, Luke Skywalker and Princess Leia did eventually kill him. As for Vader’s ghost – This ghost is the “good” Vader. As you know, Luke brought out the good side of the force in him in Episode 6 (the movie even goes on to show his ghost).
I also agree with your point about the bombs in the asteroid field, and the alleged “torpedo” blowing up the death star. But being that the borg deal with these kinds of weapons day in and day out, don’t you think that they would have already assimilated this technology? I mean, bombs are nothing new. Nor are “torpedoes.” The borg can easily tailor their shields to deflect and/or absorb these kinds of weapons.
But what I have a hard time agreeing with is the landing of troops on an Empire occupied planet. Why is this necessary? The planet can be destroyed from space by whatever the Borg’s arsenal includes. The Borg can penetrate through the planetary shields once they assimilate any ship in the Empire. Yes, I realize that on the same token, the Empire can also penetrate the Borg’s shields once a Borg ship has been destroyed.
But if both sides know each other’s shield weakness, then what does the deciding factor boil down to? Numbers, plain and simple. Like I keep saying, the Borg just simply out number the Empire’s forces. And it’s not a small margin. This is a huge margin – into the high billions.
to address vandals points:
the movie shows anakin skywalkers ghost, not vadar’s. vadar was essentially two people so when he died he had two ghosts. vadar’s ghost resides on a planet where many sith spirits go, i dont recall the name. Later on vadar’s ghost does go on to train an apprentice. i do however recall the spirit of a long dead sith named exar kun is trapped in a temple on yavin 4, exar goes on to train kyp durron. but enough of this, the argument is about the collective borg vs the collective empire, not whos alive and whos dead. kasuo obviously meant the time period around shadows of the empire or he would not have mentioned the emperor or vadar at all so for the purposes of this debate lets just assume they are alive.
what i dont understand is how the borg could penetrate an imperial planetary shield just by assimilating an imperial ship. in episode 6 luke and the bunch were in a hijacked imperial cargo ship on their way to endor. they still had to have an access code to send to the imperials on the planet of endor to request them to lower the planetary shields. also, in the final battle when the rebellion was to destroy the second deathstar a y-wing was destroyed because it crased into the shield around the deathstar when the rebel fleet pulled off from the attack after lando realized the shield was still operative. any borg ship trying to penetrate a planetary shield by just flying through it would be destroyed. furthermore we’re talking about an entire planet here, theres virtually no limit to the amount of fire power that can be launched from a planet into space.
the borg would have to land troops because they do not have the technology to destroy entire planets and even if they did they would not use it because it would contradict their existence. they seek perfection and they know they cant achieve it by blowing shit up. the empire on the other hand does have the technology to destroy planets with the deathstar and entire systems of planets with the sun crusher.
also you make it sound as though the only people loyal to the empire are stormtroopers. in the star wars movies the empire controls literally hundreds of planets many of which are loyal to the empire and willing to lay it on the line.
the borg have never faced the empire before how can you assume that they have already assimilated their technology?